[Cspace]

It has come to my attention that a few members have repeatedly been causing problems for members and treating others unfairly. I really hate posting about this over and over, but it is actually quite sad that some wish to make enemies with others in SeeD and ultimately hurt the clan repeatedly as a result. In the past week two members left because of a few members who will remain nameless, and many others are telling me about an unfriendly atmosphere here. Who are we? Are we a clan or a mob? As a mob we would be a free-for-all, everyone forming factions against everyone else and not accepting those who may have made one or two mistakes. No, we are not a mob, we are a clan, and I don't know why some refuse to accept fellow members.

Compared to other communities we actually have far fewer conflicts that most, it is just that every one is put in the spotlight for everyone to see and take sides in. Most other communities either don't do anything (resulting in an obviously negative atmosphere where no single situation seems to be a problem regardless of how it is handled) or just ban troublemakers (providing a temporary "fix"). We actually try to solve the situation which often places one in the spotlight for all to take a part in. One situation for us would be a big deal while a few somewhere else would be nothing, but the difference is that we do this to try to preserve a friendly atmosphere here and allow everyone to feel welcome. What good is an elitist community or clan with no members? Our purpose is to help each other and conduct a worthwhile community but some are taking advantage of it.

Many will probably wonder why I'm posting this because much of the clan is fine, but we are not fine. Anyone is free to come and go for any reason, but when a single member leaves because of insults and a few abusive members then it is a failure on SeeD's part (no individuals, but collectively). It is also a failure on my part. When one left because of someone's repeated insults it harmed the clan, but it seemed to be a freak incident because this had not happened for months. Then a few days later someone who wished to return was driven out of the clan by three members, and that was enough to show that we have a problem to deal with.

The borderline flaming, insults, obviously harmful comments, sarcastic remarks, and everything else intended to hurt another SeeD have absolutely no purpose. Often this is because someone is trying to prove something, someone wants the last word in a situation, or someone is just annoyed about someone and tries to make it known to everyone. I would like those who have contributed to this to ask themselves one question: What was gained? You may feel good about yourself but you hurt another SeeD, hurt the clan as a whole, and hurt your own reputation. Others can see your intentions and can look down on you for you actions.

An example of this is in a thread made saying that an old member was returning. One member (who was warned about this previously) blatantly replied with one sentence basically saying that the member was not welcome back, and then a couple others followed him, giving the member the impression that the clan didn't want him to come back so he left. Now that this is over, let's assess the situation:

Someone who was a friend to many in SeeD and did not have any ill intentions wished to return to our clan. Some were annoyed that he left a couple times before, which is only one minor aspect which is not harmful to anyone nor remotely against any rules. As a result, instead of just keeping the annoyance to a certain member to himself, he needed to tell the clan his feelings only intended to hurt the returning member or make a point at his expense. Then a couple others who were annoyed joined in and basically took over the thread and the scattered "welcome back" posts by the majority were ultimately overshadowed. As a result the returning member left. Now that we're sitting here reading this message, what did we gain? We gained nothing, lost a member, and hurt someone who meant no harm to anyone here.

The situation before this with another member is a bit more complex though is very similar. It was also due to one of the members who drove the returning member away from SeeD and right now he is teetering on the edge of a temporary banishment because of it. I am not saying who so he does not need to reveal himself, and if he is not banned then he will not be known.

Everyone in SeeD is great, and I say this with absolutely no hesitation. It is impossible to be completely rid of conflicts and the number will increase as our member count grows. With as many members as we have I am surprised that there aren't more situations like these, but we should still shoot to eliminate them and allow everyone to enjoy themselves in SeeD and on CurvedSpace. If you want respect, you are not going to gain it by lowering others. Everyone here is respectable but to gain more respect you have to set an example. Do you want to be known as "the one who insulted John Doe" or "the one who helped John Doe get a smithing level?" It is easy to hurt your reputation but takes time to improve it, though just by being an active and positive member you will gain the respect of others and may obtain a level of leadership or moderation! This is what will improve your name, not getting revenge on someone or something you find annoying (unless it is a feature of the website, and in that case be heard ).

I am just posting this so everyone becomes aware that this is happening. SeeD is not going to fall because of these situations obviously, and while there are actually very few conflicts like these, every negative action done toward a fellow SeeD is like a scar on the clan itself. Even minor comments can potentially be very hurtful if said to the wrong person in the wrong circumstances. Please, just be courteous toward others, think about what you say, and help solve conflicts that come up with the idea in mind that there will be no "winner". Also, besides, you won't have to torture yourself with another one of these speeches.

Please post your comments about this as well, but please do not make references to the situations (they seem to be over). Let's let these be the last and progress even more quickly in a great direction for all of us.

[CongressJon]

While things like this cannot break us, they certainly can hurt us, and a lot more than an offender would think. I'm just posting this for good measure guys, but please remember, we're all real people, with real feelings. Think of how one of your friends would react if you told them something you were going to post. Would they be insulted, or hurt? Please be careful with what you're going to say.

On a brighter note, SeeD is a lot stronger than some might think. We're like an ancient oak tree. We can be thundered, lightninged, even probably chopped at by axes, but we will fight to the last root to stay up. And as a clan, we have certainly achieved that goal, through our attitudes and loyalty. Thanks to everyone in this clan, we are what we are today. So keep up the good work guys!

P.S. Yay Cspace! Raises important issues, and man can he commentate!

[Ferret Overlord]

I know who the troublemakers are, I just don't know if I'm one of em...

This post has been edited by Ferret Overlord: 17 June 2004 - 09:39 PM

[ratzaroony]

I'm glad someone finally posted about this. One person was being flamed a while back for wanting to join our clan. He has quit and re-joined again, but that is his right. I agree with Cspace. We need to re-unite. We need to once again make this clan the way it was when I joined. We need to make it a united group of people. I think if we all put aside our differences and unite, this clan will be the best clan is Runescape

[MA-53]

yes, let's stop this before cspace issues another sentimental announcement

j/k, but if that's incentive for some of you, go for it!!

right, yeah... I have seen that this clan (unlike others) tries to solve it's problems, instead of running away or getting revenge. While I do not agree with the philosiphies of all seeDs, I get to know them, and appreciate and aknowlege them. While I strongly disagree with the motives and actions of some seeDs, I hold my temper (as much as possible) and try to get around them. While I think that some seeDs can be general all-around all purpose one size fits all JERKS, I don't become ravingly angry and "nationalistic" and millitant and try to start a war; I try to point out the mistakes said jerks made, and hope they get over themselves.

I see this clan like a family, one that has some sibling conflicts, but they all do. I have a brother who is 4 years older than me, and he has been a JERK to me for 14 years. However, with his graduation from highschool, he gained huge insights to responsibility and character. He has since then been quite a brother, a real nice guy to hang around with. My point is that these problems can be solved in time, no matter what the problem is. Unless of course, you have both parties being stubborn, selfish, and disagreeable, in which case, both parties are in the wrong.

I think that there is a lot to be learned from this clan, and it's obvious, though imperfect at times, unity.

C'mon, I konw pretty much every active member in this clan, and I know that their personalities are not those which can't move on. Just think about how stupid this must seem to other people; how small of a problem this really is, and instead of trying to get in the last word, try to hear the other people out, and discuss it with words like "thankyou" "please" "I understand, but I must say..." instead of things like "you stupid _______ i'm gonna blow your ___ to..."

and don't do this again, cuz I don't like having to type out these long annoying speaches that are a pain, and no one really reads thoroughly anyway.

[Unholy Maiden]

yeh like me and killer used to fight alot (i think we did) but now were friends (i think)
but at least i know he doesnt hate me

and mase i just read through your whole speech, boring but as a good friend im always there for yah if you need help with someone or sumthing

[vietpryde]

I'm just angry that both those two people left and I couldn't (or didn't, not sure which) do anything to stop them.

[Killerconvic]

[Master Of Stuff]

Thank you, thank you, Thank You CSpace for bringing this to light. I think only you could bring everything to light.

As for the clan as a whole, I see so many great things and a lot of potential. We are a very unique family that I am Very proud to be a part of.

------------------------------------

I would also like to get something off my chest... these direct/borderline insults are not necessary. The beauty of forums is you can Read Before you post. There is a difference in being blunt and being just plain mean. Not only that, you can Edit your post if needed. If you know you're wrong, Apologize... we will not think less of you... as a matter of fact, it is Not a sign of weakness, it is Very Respectable. If you think you're correct, Explain your way of thinking... most conflicts stem from misunderstandings we have amongst ourselves and do Not have to go as far as some of our current conflicts had gone...

There is always a way of working things out... we have to try first.

Had to get that out of my system...

[vietpryde]

[Muler]

Family backstabs each other every now and then. Family can hate. But in the end they all love each other.
Remember that

This post has been edited by Muler: 18 June 2004 - 12:21 AM

[Cspace]

We don't need to treat everyone like subjects in a counseling office, but it really is a little sad that some situations cannot be put to rest. Often minor arguments form perpetual rivalries which do nothing but lead to more problems and pull others down with them. If you get in an argument with someone it doesn't mean that you have to hate their guts, everyone faces these situations now and then, it is human. It is a little off, however, when one argument starts members talking about each other behind their backs and jumping on some for minor mistakes.

For example, some were a little annoyed by one members' repeated joining and leaving of our clan. It's okay to be annoyed about things, but when he returned saying that he wished to join again some jumped on him and basically said that he was not welcome. He did absolutely nothing to spark it and even mentioned that he did leave a few times previously, but instead of just making a normal comment about it (or not posting it) a couple wished to verbally banish him from SeeD. As a community we should welcome new members, not drive them away if they made a mistake in the past. It is not like the member broke any rules or hurt anyone from what he did, but others wished to speak their mind at his expense instead of in a friendly manner. I'm sure that if you wanted to come back you would not want to be kicked out for doing something on the level of spamming a few times in GD.

I am not blaming a single member here though. Everyone makes mistakes and sometimes we become angry when we don't need to be. Maybe something bad happened in real life and you took it out on someone here without realizing it. It happens to everyone, but I am just asking that everyone please make an attempt to treat each other as members of the same clan and not those of conflicting factions. We are a clan and if we can all act as one we could be one of the greatest in Runescape. Everyone here has put so much into it, why must we lower ourselves and try to hinder our progress for temporary personal victories over one another?

[SlainThrax-]

killer.... u trying not to be involved?

heh thats gota be a joke when u are one of the ones ploting to get me banned!

[Killerconvic]

[Baseballl]

As I said earlier to those involved in the conflict, just "act" like you want them back but don't flame them. I have also said that when someone insults you or tries to bring you down, if you just ignore it then those people will eventually stop, therefore not having a conflict. Most people insult others to challenge them and see what will occur when the person snaps back...

Just accept these conflicts as a challenge and try to overcome them. Ignore the person that insults you, don't make immature comments if you don't like someone, and just don't post if you can't say anything nice.

Another thing that most people think to be cute is that they make "intelligent" insults. In many cases, respectable members and mods make comments to act smart, but it doesn't help any situation. Nobody on here cares how smart you are so don't try to prove yourself to make indirect insults.