[Cspace]

[CongressJon]

*Enters conversation nervously*

It's a good idea Zolon, but as Cspace said, there are just so many things that could go wrong. Could turn into a popularity contest, with fights breaking out over who gets to be in a position of power. Could have many unsatisfied with that kind of rule, resulting in low morale. Could... well, you get the idea.

[Cspace]

I am just afraid that no council will be able to view situations from the countless angles that the rest of the clan may. We can create a process to allow it, but it would just be adding steps to allow everyone to have an ability to make changes (which they already have now without the extra steps). This works if a popular vote is not possible, such as with regional effects or different groups (such as a council of all groups in other games to make global decisions) but since anything that happens currently affects everyone in SeeD, everyone in SeeD should be able to have a direct voice and a direct ability to make changes or additions without relying on any specific members to voice ideas for them. If members can voice their opinions and ideas freely as well as directly support ideas and changes themselves, then the entire clan is definitely able to represent itself without the extra factors to consider. This will allow the clan to run itself and for everyone to have power, but everyone has to get back into the frame of mind we were in before we ended up concentrating on conflicts.

(The council system is likely to be implemented eventually in some form, but not yet for we have no need for the extra steps. As we expand a need is likely to come up, and then we will decide on a system mutually as a clan.)

Before the conflicts everyone had a say in almost everything, and during the conflicts everyone still had the ability to make changes and additions. It is just that during this period the leaders needed to take a more active role, however now we are capable of allowing SeeD to function in balance as it has almost a year ago. It is up to SeeD to take this opportunity, everyone knows what to do, they just have to do it (it is different for every member, just think about it for a little bit and you'll know what you should do).

[Glammeress]

[Goto]

I'm with Cspace on this one. From experience, in relatively small groups Councils just introduce extra steps and actually stop new ideas from going through.

Perhaps we just have a situation where due to recent events people don't want to publically reveal what they think about new ideas, given the fact I've seen some flamefests start over the stupidest things recently. My only advice is this... If someone suggests something and you don't like it, don't stay quiet. Give a constructive criticism or explain which part of it you don't think will work well, saying 'This is a [insert random filtering word here] idea' merely stops people listening to your opinion. Perhaps what you don't like can be modified a bit so the idea can still be implemented. People pay more attention to opinions that are explained than they do one line posts saying how much something sucks.

Erm.. ok, that last paragraph was planned out to be about 2 lines long, got a bit carried away . Basically.. Be constructive, don't shoot ideas down, and don't take offense if others don't like your ideas. I've spoken to several friends who've been upset when others haven't agreed upon changes they wanted. Don't take it personally that your ideas didn't appeal to everyone else, if everybody was the same and wanted the same things this would be a very dull place..

[Gen. Warthog]

Ok, if I may insert an opinion, what would be wrong with popularity contest? I mean, if it were to be a popularity contest wouldn't tha tmean the people who were voted had the respect of at least a couple people and they have contact with a couple people making it easier to hear everyones opinion.

Now if to say we tried this 3 3 3 council idea. think about this, have all mems not on the council, if they have an opinion or sugestion let them take it to the mem's on the council. The 3 mems would then take the ideas, bounce them off each other, and send their thoughts to the mods. All the mods vote and bounce them off each other and send to the 3 mods on the council. again the bouncing of ideas and then send to s mods and the process again which carries the weeded ideas to a concentrated number and then the go to the leader for final approval or disproval. I mean, i htink if we can take this thing through a chain of command where everything has to be taken through the proper channels, changes can come much more effectively and efficiently. again, just an opinion.

Keep it real

Pimpin Gen.

[Goto]

Nothing is wrong with a popularity contest in some ways, but it's far too easy for people to get upset they weren't elected, to try to force others into letting them on, for friends of those elected to get preferential treatment compared with those they don't much like, etc.

Basically there just isn't any need for the council system at this stage. It's far faster and more efficient to just let people post their own ideas on a suggestion, rather than force them to go talk to someone else about it, who could misinterpret it or disagree enough not to suggest it. The council system would just slow things down and add in too many extra ways things could go wrong, without gaining any efficiency or effectiveness.

Thats just my opinion though, it's the right of everyone to decide whether or not they think it'd work, I just don't think it would.

[Ferret Overlord]

[Dragonman]

Holy lord, that was a lot. All I read was the first couple of posts on the first page and something about Cspace and a boot company....I don't have that much time, so I'll just skip some pages and defenestrate Cspace later.

Fighting is part of life. It's not like everyone's going to agree with every single thing. That's no Golden Age. A Golden Age would be...a prosperous time when many new, great things are coming in. Now what would this be in a gaming clan's case?

• New, dedicated members
• Tons of events (as in more than once a week )
• Happy people

There's no reason to get mad about disagreements. They'll most lieky get over it anyways. And if they don't, they we have one of our guides go and talk to them. Not start a commotion (especially secretly without them knowing at first) over it. What do I mean by guides? The mods Cspace chose. These guys have been here a while and are known to be able to maintain the forums, and take care of problems with the members like guides.

You can't get power hungry here. If you get any kind of hungry, send the flush smiley to Cspace and go get a pink-sprinkled donut (remember Spike? ). Moderators have these so-called 'Pinnage Powers' (oh man! ) and 'Edit Wands' (oh golly!) so that the forums don't go wacko. There's a lot of people here, Cspace doesn't have that time. He needs it to type up three times as much as the person he's quoting.

If you've been here for a while and want to be recognized, try out those fancy SeeD Emblems that can eventually get you in a Hall of Heroes (sounds better than fame, eh?) or those Official SeeD Titles. Who cares if you don't get a drop-down menu to close or pin something. Once you've collected a bunch of titles and medals in SeeD and get enough emblems, you can be in the Hall of Heroes wish all those polished metals and titles next to your name.

Just love each other in that SeeD kind of way, love Glam in that Glam kind of way, and defenestrate Cspace in that Rylkan kind of way. Don't get obsessed with the moderators deal. They're here to help you guys out, and keep this place running and find out what's goin' on. Just embrace. *leaves the huggles for Glam*

[Cspace]

[X Zolon]

Sorry to say this, Cspace, not that I'm doubting you or anything, but I'm thinking a council would be more effective..

Remember guilds? Remember making SeeD more roleplayish? Where did they go?

[Cspace]

It is more effective when there are multiple groups of different interests, but it just slows things down if it is designed to emulate the needs of the clan (which is one group). Sorry to say it, but many don't even understand our current organizational structure completely, and a system such as this will become tedious because of the further increased steps to get anything done (and it may keep some from even bothering with ideas that they think are minor). The council would be there to speak for the clan, but the clan can speak for the clan more effectively than anyone trying to read it. Many steps would be required in the council to do what a poll can do more easily, and in the end there will always be those who will believe that the council is not speaking for them. What a council says is one thing, but a popular vote is a direct reading of the needs of the clan. No arguments or discussions, the outcome would be the outcome and the majority would win, everyone can come up with changes and ideas; everyone has a direct voice to propose, forward, ammend, or reject changes.

Your idea is good, but we are currently not ready for it. We will need something like this later but right now it will take the voice away from the clan and give it to a few.

[Gracious gal]

Guys, just feeling surprised that I still can reply. After looking at the wonderful length of the posts hehe, I have strong feelings.

Here is my suggestions: Seeds can adopt a some sort of structure of a government.

For example, I am from Singapore.
In Singapore, Prime Minister holds the most power. But there is a president who can dismiss the Prime Minister if he is not leading the country well or he is corrupt. However, of course, the president needs proof to do that. Next, there are some senior ministers who monitior the progress of how the Prime Minister do his job and provide suggestions to him and they also have a lot of powers. Next, there are the cabinet ministers who take care of the different areas such as defence, environment, foreign affairs, community development, education, finance and so on.
I feel that the more mods, the more democratic the clan is. There is a line between dicatorship and democracy. Both have pros and cons. Why not we stand on the fence and choose the centre between the two? Cons are minimised and we enjoy the pros. Cspace, u can review the structures of the different government of the different countries and u can adopt them in this clan.

And besides that, elections can be held. Woot, that 's interesting. It is just like the Indonesian election where people place their poll to choose the president or the Prime Minister and the president or the prime Minister choose their own cabinet ministers. People who have talents will be chosen to be a cabinet minister and they will be groomed so that they can lead the clan.

This post has been edited by Gracious gal: 03 July 2004 - 06:37 AM

[Goto]

An interesting idea, but falls under the same problems as all the other council ideas we've heard. It complicates everything tremendously, makes it harder for some to have themselves heard, increases the amount of places something can go wrong (corruption, simply agreeing with friends, etc.) and really doesn't add any benefits I can think of, otherwise than puffing up the egos of those that get put on the council (and possibly distancing them from everyone else, which would make it even less effective).

As Cspace has said we're just not ready for anything like that, while we're still one group a simple poll works much better. Perhaps if the 'SeeDs in other games' idea became well established and other groups were just as large as RS SeeD it might be worth looking into on the occasions something SeeD-wide had to be decided.

[Raktor]