[ohtaren]

Ok this is probobly random, but how many of you guys speak elven (quenya/sindaren) I mean we're playing a fantesy based game come on! By the way, its nothing to be ashamed of...
so how many of you would respond if I said:

luthien na i anvanya vendé

mabee I'm just a sad looser that just makes these post about luthien on a friday night because I have no real life and no girlfriend (*crying after superchao and minerdamian's beautiful poems*). ok, its getting late and I'm getting punchy lol

-ohtaren

edit: apparently its late enough that my name has mutated to 'ohtarem' fortunatly I read my post over after I post them.

This post has been edited by ohtaren: 10 May 2003 - 02:30 AM

[Spikeout]

i dont read lotr but my friend speaks elven. she reads this ringy thingy which says one ring to rule them all and something after that and she said something to me in elven which was actually a cussword i think thats waht she told ne.


P.S. yep its a she

[ohtaren]

The junk on the ring isn't elven. It uses elven charectors to communicate the black speech. in addition, there are no cuss words in elven.

If she tells you a cuss word again just call her a "nauco vende" prenounced "now ko ven day" it means dwarven maiden (not to pleasent a thought, the beards and all...)

-ohtaren

[Grand one]

i speak a little dwarvish
well when i say a little i mean karak means mountain

[ohtaren]

lol. I don't speak and dwarvish. (to uncooth and harsh, although I do speake klingon wich is worse lol). but I can speak about dwarven in elven.

i tauco nauco mapa i aiwe

lol, that didn't make a lot of sense but lets see if any one can translate that or what I said about my girl friend (I wish) earlier.

-ohtaren

[rabk]

Ohtaren, I am truly sorry that Luthien has gone away. Do you think you're being fair to Beren when you use the 1st person singular possesive though? It was he that she gave up her immortality for, after all. maybe luthien na i anvalwa vendé would be more appropriate. When you put it that way you're still saying that she has left you, but you don't exclude Beren from the actual possesion of the woman who was his inspiration. You have to be careful. Who knows what power he can still wield from beyond Dor Firn-i-Guinar, the Land of the Dead-That-Live...

QUOTE

i tauco nauco mapa i aiwe

Unless he caught it in a net first, the mighty dwarf that siezed that small bird must have had very fast reflexes.

I have to disagree with your use of the adjective tauco. The prefix tau-, meaning "great", or "mighty" is derived from the name Taulë, the great tree (in The Book of Lost Tales, Part I). Taura, Taurë, Taunë,and Tauno are all used as superlative adjectives, but always in reference to forests or to forested lands. (e.g., Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor and Tauremornalómë, entish words used to describe the Black Forest in chapter 4 of Return of the King. They are translated under "Ents" in appendix F of TLotR and further described on page 308 of The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien.)

Anyhow, I don't think that a dwarf would take too kindly to being called "tree-like", no matter whether it was intended as a compliment or not. Maybe you could use polda (burly), or alta (great) instead.

Now, for my bit (hope you don't mind if it's Sindarin):

Ir cenin eilph reviol
a lassath dhannol nu 'elaidh
aníron Ethuil cheriol.

It's a bit of what Galadriel was thinking as she departed from the Grey Havens, longing for life to begin a-new (Thanks to the dear Mr. Ryszard Derdziñski)...

This post has been edited by rabk: 12 May 2003 - 07:02 PM

[ohtaren]

wonderful!!!!!

a kindrid spirit! asto the anvanya or anvalwa I was saying that she is the most beautiful maiden. vanya beeing beautiful and an being the prefix for most or greatist. I sorry about the dwarf comment. It was extreamly late when I wrote that and I ment to say vast or great and didn't have time to double check what I was saying. I was realy punchy and I was picturing a dwarf grabing a chicken by the neck (who knows).

by the way, I wrote out my signature on the fly from phonetic memory (I learned elven from speaking it instead of writing it so...) could you give me the correct spellings. I was thinking the farwell that those two elves gave to Turin in the silmarilion.

as for angering beren, I don't know what your talking about I am beren (lol jk). actualy I did go as beren to both of the movies on opening day with some friends of mine. But when ever I told enyone who I was they looked at me wiered so I just started saying I was Aragorn. But aragorns prize is only the shadow of luthiens beauty *sigh*

I'm sorry, I don't know much sindarin. I'm going to consult with the internet and a friend to figure out what you said

I'm also trying to think of a good elven based name for a friend of mine, got any ideas?

-ohtaren

[rabk]

I'm sorry about the anvanya thing. I wasn't paying attention, lol. I disregarded the n in the prefix and was thinking about the root auta, "to go away" or "to leave". The past perfect tense of auta is avánië, which I thought you had replaced with a[n]vanya. My bad.

QUOTE

I was picturing a dwarf grabing a chicken by the neck

Hehehe-- I didn't think about a chicken. That's good. I don't know of any specific words for poultry, so there's nothing else you could have used. Aiwë, wilin, and filit are all used in Lost Tales Part I but I belive they all refer specifically to small birds. Aiwë was as good a call as any.

Oh, and tauco was a perfectly valid word . I was just thinking about haw a dwarf would react to you when you compared him to a tree . I can see him now ...

QUOTE

actualy I did go as beren to both of the movies on opening day

Did you fix it so it looked like you had a missing hand? You rock.

QUOTE

I'm sorry, I don't know much sindarin. I'm going to consult with the internet and a friend to figure out what you said

I'll save you the trouble. It was quoted from a letter from Sam Gamgee to Aragon, as translated by Ryszard Derdziñski. Sam is relating what Galadriel said as the ships were leaving the havens. I'll give you Mr. Derdziñski's own translation:

Ir cenin eilph reviol
a lassath dhannol nu 'elaidh
aníron Ethuil cheriol.

'When I-see swans flying
and leaves falling under trees
I want Spring beginning-suddenly...'

QUOTE

I'm also trying to think of a good elven based name for a friend of mine, got any ideas?

This'll be fun. What's your friend's name in Westron (common tongue )? His characteristics? Personality? I want to know something about him before I help you find a fitting name.

QUOTE

by the way, I wrote out my signature on the fly from phonetic memory (I learned elven from speaking it instead of writing it so...) could you give me the correct spellings.

I'm the exact opposite. I learned from reading it instead of speaking. I've never really met anyone to speak it with. My grammer is deplorable; it's only vocabulary that I know well. As regards the spelling, you're really very close. All you're missing is a double "n". I think "Anar caluva tielyanna" is what you want. Tielyanna is used several times in Unfinished Tales, where it tanslates literally as "path you're upon."

It's good to meet a comrade. I'm glad you started this thread.
Have you tried any elvish calligraphy? The Tengwar is so beautiful... :sigh:
--Rabk

This post has been edited by rabk: 13 May 2003 - 05:36 PM

[X Zolon]

guys, this is so cool! where do you learn this? i would truly love to speak it! pleasse, can you enlighten me!?

[ohtaren]

ok, alot of things to say. first I'll respond to rabk

about the Beren costume, I was dressed as the moment he met Luthien in the woods for the first time. So no I had both hands. It was actualy rather comical because myself and my friends are realy in to this so we acted out the parts to the nth degree. I walked into the theater looking extreemly tered and looking for nice chicks I had a friend who took black sweat clothes and glued bark to himself as well as aranging branches and some moss. he walked into the theater and didn't sit with the rest of us. He just stood there with his arms over his head LOLOLOL.

as to my friends name. his name is alex or alexander. I haven't figured out what all that means but... he's looking for something befiting a nobel fighter. something strong yet poeticly beautiful. he also wants something unique. In other words. not something already mentioned in the books. for instance. my name ohtaren is rather like isildur's aid that managed to smuggle the heir of gondor of to the northern realms, ohtar (humorously only the word warrior), yet I added the masculine nameing suffix -en.

Tankyou for the help with spelling. now that I run the phrase over out load there is indeed a double length on the 'n' if you actualy break down the phrase, there should be a 'nai' in it some where, because it is a 'may it be' phrase but I suppose its an idiom because that is the way that its written in the silmarilion. I guess its like the standard elven greeting of (sorry for the speling) elen sila omenntielvo or a star shins upon the hour of our greeting. can you think of a shorter greeting. I can belt that out pretty fast when I'm greeting a friend but it still seems a little long.

As to the caligraphy, yes, I can write tengwar faster than I can write english lol. It just flows naturaly now, its so beautiful. Its also realy usefull if you want to keep a secret journal or something like that. a friend of mine has also learned to read it pretty fast (although his hand writing is horrible) so I give him notes and stuff that I don't want other people reading. Its realy rather childish, but it passses time

ok, now for you spike out lol. the site that I've found most helpful, because its all in an easy order and includes exersises and stuff is:

http://www.uib.no/Pe...ohf/qcourse.htm

ofcourse you could be realy hard core and just pour over all of tolkens own matirial. but if you look online for quenya, most of the sites that have speakers refferance the site Ijust gave you. a word of cotion though, just because you can't find a word in that sites dictionary or even online at all, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. a good source is tolkiens 'etamologies' (not spelled right by the way)

ok, now for a little mor elven, Rabk thit is written on the fly I would enjoy your corrections because I'm a little unsure of the last word (my star)

luthien, elyë na elennyë

I know the last words wrong but you catch my drift hopefuly. I'm also a little unsure of the usage of 'elyë' I've seen it used this way before but I'm also pretty sure that I could use a '-lyë'ending on the elen.

-ohtaren

[rabk]

QUOTE

where do you learn this? i would truly love to speak it! pleasse, can you enlighten me!?

X Zolon-- Like Ohtaren said, the best way to familiarize yourself with the languages is to read J.R.R. Tolkien's works, starting with the Silmarillion. It's a history of the people and gods of Middle Earth that serves as a framework for his linguistic studies. In real life Tolkien was a philologist, someone who studies languages. While he was alive he was considered one of the world's foremost experts on ancient Norse and Germanic texts.

Tolkien began to invent his own languages when he was very young, and before he left for college he had already begun work on what he called "Qenya", a primitive elvish tongue. While there he realized that the language presupposed a mythology and a cultural history, so he began to write Quenta Silmarillion, or the "Tale of the Silmarils." He worked on it for the remainder of his life-- it was finally published posthumously by his son Christopher.

QUOTE

elen sila omenntielvo or a star shins upon the hour of our greeting

The phrase is actually Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo. Lúmë is the noun meaning "time"; when you want to say "upon the time [hour], you have to use the allative form lúmenna, elided here as lúmenn' because the next word begins with a similar vowel.

QUOTE

luthien, elyë na elennyë

Elyë is perfectly proper. It means "even thou," and is used in this type of phrase often. As for elennyë, you said that you were star-like, instead of Luthien. You had the first person pronominal suffix, '-nyë' on it. You're exactly right when you say you should have put an '-lyë' there instead. It's the second person singular, correlating to 'thou' in engllish. Also, the word 'na' should be 'nar'. Na is the imperative form of the verb; it's what you would use if you were commanding somebody. Tolkien pointed this out in the Vinyar Tengwar when he stated that na airë would mean "be holy". Hope you don't mind me correcting it-- I think it's a beautiful phrase, and very well put.

I'll start thinking of a name for your mate. I'll get back to you on it.
--Rabk

This post has been edited by rabk: 13 May 2003 - 05:35 PM

[ohtaren]

lol, ok. I'm checking the forums about every hour or so... I'm sick

-ohtaren

[ohtaren]

oops, I deffinatly ment to add in the 'lummenn' I knew it was there I just get carless when I write out what I'm thinking. and the '-nye' was also carelyess on my part. thankyou for your corrections.

so would 'melenyel' be the right way to say 'I love you'? (elven is a fabulous flirting tool )

-ohtaren

[rabk]

Here's a quote from www.behindthename.com:

QUOTE

ALEXANDER   m   English, German, Dutch Pronounced: al-eg-ZAN-dur From the Greek name Alexandros, which meant "defending men" from Greek alexein "to defend, help" and aner "man" (genitive andros). Alexander the Great, King of Macedon, is the most famous bearer of this name. In the 4th century BC he built a huge empire out of Greece, Egypt, Persia, and parts of India. This was also the name of emperors of Russia, kings of Scotland and Yugoslavia, and eight popes. Also, Sir Alexander MacKenzie was an explorer of the north and west of Canada in the 18th century.

The name comes from two Greek roots: alexei-, 'to defend', and andros, 'man' (the same root we get the word 'anthropology' from).

In Quenya, Atan was the generic term for the human race in early times, and later was used to describe the elf-friends. The Quenya equivalant of alexei- would be the verb varya-, 'to protect'. Add the agentive suffix -do (changed to -no because the stem ends in an r). The result is Atanvarno, the defender of men. The 'nv' may sound a little weird, but I have seen it in compound words before. For example, Envinyatar, the 'renewer', is one of the titles that Aragorn uses.

[Edit: Tolkien uses melánë for 'I Love' near the begining of The Lost Road. Adding the second person ending -lyë would make it melánelyë, very beautiful word and a powerful tool of seduction. ]

This post has been edited by rabk: 13 May 2003 - 05:35 PM

[ohtaren]

Thanks for the name help its perfect.

as for the 'i love you' If take the melane root and ad -lye you must expand the ne to nye because it is no longer the last sufix. then you can shorten the -lye to '-l' or '-le' (depending on what age your in) because it is the last suffix. so I believe the only place I was wrong is the 'e' becoming an a and adding all the apropiate accents which I usiusaly don't pay attention to while typing.

I think it would be cool to write an elven love song or poem then we could post it in the poetry thread complete with a translation. what do ya say.

-ohtaren

oh yeah, have you ever seen a complete translation of the tale of tinuviel into elven from the english version in fellowship? I have the english version memorizes and i'm working on a celtic harp melody to it. (I aspire to be a bard of old) I think is would be so beautiful if I could preform it in elven to some poor girl who has know clue what I'm saying but knows it sounds lovely. lol

This post has been edited by ohtaren: 13 May 2003 - 05:52 PM