[Red Sentinel]

i asked superchao why he left seed, and this is his answer:

Yes.

Since I'm sitting in my music lesson with nothing else to do, I'll explain from the entire beginning what has happened to me in this clan. You can quote and post this, should you so wish.

I started in SeeD in September 2002, Which was over 2 years ago. I was in The Iron Throne before SeeD, which was a close ally to SeeD. I had this incident with a know-nothing idiot named Syxx, who claimed that I scammed him out of a rune large (Worth 100k back then, pretty much...) and Cspace offered to help me out with this problem. After around five weeks of dealing with it , we managed to convince Syxx to shut up 

The Iron Throne became obselete, so I decided to join SeeD, since Cspace and the members back then were mature and supportive. No less than one month later, I was the happiest SeeD around. I had new friends, new opportunities, and I felt like one of the crowd, so to speak.

New people started to join, new faces began to appear, and SeeD became a community of friends. I became friends with Traver, Sajones and Hyperfried more or less as soon as they joined, due to their unique sense of humor and their overall perspective more or less the same as mine. Now, Over 1 and a half years later, we still remain good friends. People like those deserve a medal, for putting up with me as long as they did, and I respect them deeply.

Days passed, as did the weeks, which became months, then finally the years. I was becoming more mature, learning new things, and making more and more friends.

Here comes the but in my story, the part that makes you wish you had stopped reading at the last paragraph, because the remaining half of this story isn't the pleasant side of things... 

The talking ceased, the smiles stopped. People starting joining that had no intention to keep this clan safe and welcoming. People began to leave, flame or turn "dark" , so to speak. The amount of good SeeDs that were joining dropped.. every new member that joined was either out of spite due to being banned, or had no intention of being pleasant.

However, the select few of us tried to maintain the atmosphere we once knew, when times were spent being supportive and caring... we failed.

People were making desperate post attempts at creating peace and tranquility, but did it work? No. The ignorant lot of you wouldn't listen, and disheartened all that remained. Riots began, conflicts burned through our society, and we were left stranded, on an island surrounded by the vile water of hate and lies.

My friends began to flee SeeD, to find a better clan without the problems and the depression. Some did, some are still looking. Cspace tried his best, the remaining Super Mods and decent mods tried their best, but we couldn't prevail over the hatred these idiotic children had.

That's why, after 2 years at SeeD, I have left. My best friend, Traver, left because I did. We have the same views, and probably always will have. I hope SeeD gets better, for Cspaces sake, he put alot of effort into this clan, and I want him to have a successful future.. even if some of the prats don't.

That's why fersken, so remember that the next time you try to discuss this with me.

Ï totally agree with him, and i think we need to treat SeeD as well as we can, Cause both me and super wants this clan to work, so "Prats", stop being so foolish.
*Dont blame superchao anything, this is my desition and i wanted it to be posted for public*

[Bodom]

Hes right.

[Jarik C-Bol]

he's exactly right. that's what i've been saying.

[Red Sentinel]

I agree with super myself, someone problably, and i do not mention names, wants to join here just for messing it up or messing members up

[Cspace]

It isn't too late to turn things around. Everything was improving greatly until the recent incident, but it seems that those involved wish to stop and I'm thankful for it. Really, this is a matter of maturity. As we have found it sometimes only takes one to crash the spirits of the clan. The leaders, mods, and members (most of all) have been building the clan for years now. Many have put tons of effort into the clan such as Superchao and made it great. Many hundreds have had their input and contributions put into the clan at one time or another. Almost everyone wants things to go on and for everyone to get along...

But then one hypothetical person comes along who needs attention or has a grudge against a member or two. This person wouldn't be responsible enough to take more than his/her dislike of the individual or SeeD into account, and acts on it. If the person doesn't wish to leave SeeD, he/she would try various borderline tactics to provoke a conflict. If the person does wish to leave SeeD, two things can happen. Either the member leaves, or the member does damage until he/she is forced out (never asking to leave). Unfortunately, many choose the latter option. It is obvious that the individual would not wish to remain, though he/she is determined to make as large an impression as possible. Often flaming, sometimes purposely provoking conflicts to disrupt the entire clan.

The thing is, sometimes it does disrupt everything here. If the member is not taken seriously everything is fine, but when he/she is taken seriously the individual would get what he/she wants. What makes things even worse is if the individual's hypothetical friends back him/her up and join in in his/her defense. Their excuse would be that they're standing up for their friend, but what they don't see or don't consider important is that in the process they are hurting many others.

*******************************************************

So what is the result?

The work of many members to make the place great goes down the tubes for a while as some idiot goes off into the distance laughing his head off at the turmoil he/she managed to cause. I'm sorry to say but that is hypocritical, inconsiderate, incredibly selfish, and sometimes even downright malicious. Over a thousand dollars and years of work went into the site from many members, and one feels the right to undermine all of that for his/her own selfish desires?

If the member dislikes the clan or our members so much that leaving is necessary, then the person should leave. Don't make others leave to make the place happy for you, if everyone did that nobody would be left. I'm glad that 98% of the clan is capable of simple tolerance unlike a couple who justify the clan's demise due to a few members. I mean, come on...

This applies to many members in at least some way, some obviously more than others. I will make a few hypothetical quotations which are always a problem (the likes of which I have heard more than once):

1: He insulted my friend so my actions against the individual were justified.

2: He needs to learn better, and if humiliation is necessary then it will be used.

3: I will not stop until he stops.

Now I will say why they are problems:

1: So he insulted your friend, you find justification in returning the favor? If you consider it a problem for your friend, don't reflect the damage for him, instead try to end it. If everyone went by this revenge logic, someone else will back up the other guy, then a group of friends would go back at him, and before you know it the entire community is in an uproar. No one should be an exception, and if you feel bad for your friend why don't you go to a mod to handle the problem? If your friend conducted himself responsibly then he would not be the one to require correction.

2: Lol, let me get one thing straight: No website like ours is going to make fundamental changes to one's character or knowledge so quickly (or at all). Whether it be through benign or malicious means (humiliation being malicious in my mind), one should not expect changes to be made to one's character in any time by really an anonymous person on the internet. Especially spelling, lol. The "Well he should learn to spell" justification doesn't really work too well when the individual physically doesn't have the ability yet to speak with perfect spelling and grammar. I dare anyone to tell that to a third grader face-to-face and see what changes are made in a month. Then, I dare anyone to tell that to someone from another country who is new to the English language. See what progress is made so quickly even if they try.

3: This is a very common complaint, and I have a simple answer to that: It takes two to stop, not one. If you won't stop until the other guy stops, and the other has the same logic, then please tell me what progress will ever be made.

*******************************************************

Look, the solution to all this is so easy to attain if one tries... All some have to learn to do is to forgive others if they have stopped. Really, everyone makes mistakes. Members, mods, leaders, administrators, and myself. We all make mistakes. If you think it takes one or two mistakes for a person to be an idiot then you need help. Mistakes should not be smeared in someone's face, everyone makes them and everyone should learn from them. Everyone should not, however, repeatedly try to get revenge for them. Above all, learn to let some things be.

If something is not intended to hurt you, don't hurt the person who did it. Feel free to provide feedback, but even criticism can be worded so that it won't be taken negatively.

If someone does something "annoying", do the same thing as the above.

If something is done obviously without thinking and it hurts you unintentionally, don't explode. Explosions aren't normally too nice. Either ignore it if it was not intentional or mention it to a SMod or GMod.

If someone intentionally hurts you, go to a SMod or GMod. Don't return fire. If there was no provocation from your direction and you do not hurt them in return, the SMods and GMods will be on your side in the given situation.


This is all common sense, I just wish that a few would listen to theirs.

I hope SeeD gets better, for Cspaces sake, he put alot of effort into this clan, and I want him to have a successful future.. even if some of the prats don't.

Thanks, but that's no justification in my mind.

I think it should be for everyone's sake. Yeah, these things eat up my time and sometimes are stressful, but it has to be expected in my position here. Everyone else though... You know, as long as most are in a good mood here, I'll be in a good mood as well. If one tries to make the clan happy, that's much better in my mind than if one does it for one person's sake.




Everything is going to be alright. It can all be fine tomorrow, or we may have to wait a while. It's up to everyone on all "sides". If we all want a better clan tomorrow, then let's make it happen. Make suggestions for improvements if something isn't quite right, organize groups to do things that you feel a clan should do, join or start a mercenary group if you're interested in trying your luck in a war, or really do anything else that you would enjoy. Just keep common courtesy in mind, please.

... Now, let's get back to being SeeD for the first time in a year.

[SlainThrax-]

anyone wana sum up cspaces post cant read while training

[Spikeout]

u really need to read the whole thing to understand the concept.

ppl who hate ppl who cant spell or just plain stupid and dunno anything are arrogant. they ignore the fact that theyre trying to make friends here and get themselves in trouble and get banned. the friends of those who get banned tries to defend their friends but things just get worse and ppl r flaming each other for the stupidest of things

[CongressJon]

I must same I can't blame Superchao one bit. He was (and most certainly still is) and great buddy of mine, and I can see his reasoning. It really did seem kind of weird. Because of certain charged hostilities, tempers were suddenly raised. Tolerance became low. A few arguments broke out, and thus, the Runescape Rebels were formed! After a while of talking, infiltrating, whatever, they left us. Almost permanently, that is. (We'll get a nice lil' visit from Green121 every once in a while.)

This seemed to serve as a beginning to take some of these allegations and charge them upon a few others. It was mostly cleared up, but it seems that some of the tempers really never stopped flaring. Every once in a while a scuffle would break out, and the people involved would express the fact that they were hurt by one's words in inexplicable anger. It really got frightening at certain points, so to speak.

Essentially, I believe that conflicts such as the ones before the Rebels still break out like this because of the original incident. Ever since then, because of the... lack of lack of hostility (say that ten times fast ) it almost seems people either build of others' anger or just take it as a sign that it's okay to break out arguments such as those. (Even if it's done unconsciously.)

All of this builds up a strong point, but contradicting it...

It doesn't have to be this way. As has been said almost literally thousands of times, try to accept opinions you don't agree with. Think before you say something, and think of the consequences. If someone says something that really angers you, instead of replying with a radical insult or sarcastic comment, why not ask a mod to warn them, maybe suspend for a few days, if needed? Why not just try to work it out? That's what I want to see, and expect to see, in the near future of SeeD. All of our members cooperating (mostly, anyway ) in harmony. Not taking things as such insults that they must be shoved back in someone's face, but trying to talk it over, or at least avoiding starting a big ol' flame war.

Really, that is what I think is in store for us, based on what Super said.

Hey Chao, if you get to see this, don't hesitate to check back every once in a while. Who knows? We might get a lot better a lot quicker

[Doomed1]

Somehow, some people have a great amount of prejudical moral beliefs. They think that if they aren't like them, they are messed up, and should be thrown out of their world. And they never seem to admit that they do it, and never learn to not be like the way they are again.

[Goto]

I'll agree with quite a bit of what Super said, but one thing I certainly have to disagree with him. The picture he paints is of a few reasonable people amid a sea of angry people flaming. In every case I've ever seen here, it's been half a dozen or less people actually causing a problem, they're just so much louder than all the people who are doing the right thing. I don't see that much of a minority of the clan as a good way of checking how the clan is going. Instead look at all the other people who are trying to improve the situation, who are staying out of the fights, who are enjoying SeeD. That, is how the clan should be measured.

I really hope Super reconsiders at some point in the future, as he was and still is a great friend, and a great SeeD. One thing is for sure, he'll always be welcome here.

[Dragonman]

It is disappoitning when you see that it isn't just the people here that got along with everyone and that you got along with. The problem is those things can last forever so need to keep recruiting. Yep, it does stink, but it's a part of moving that this place can't survive without. We get some good members, and some, er, disappointing ones. But we need new members to keep going on, so as long as people don't give this place won't fall. Actually, as long as Cspace is here it won't fall. If it was just him somehow then he'd probably get a thousand in more in a few weeks.

[Cerberus]

I'm new here, so this may just be a bad first impression, but to me this place seems like a big soap opera. What's with all the fighting? what's it all about? and what's the point? Those aren't hypothetical questions, I want someone (preferably somone who is a part of it all) to actually think about it and answer, maybe then you'll see how pointless it all is. This is an online community for crying out loud, you're supposed to talk aout stuff; Runescape, whatever. Just have fun.
Everyone has their own opinions and you all need to realise that, respect other peoples opinions instead of trying to have a better one.

I'm not so sure if I'll be sticking around here if the majority of you can't be a little more mature. We'll see.

-- Cerberus

[Ruckus Fox]

Yeah, let's face the facts. Some people don't need friends to survive, they get fun out of seeing people suffer. It makes them feel alive when people fall to their knee's--the ideal war soldier...huh?

I suppose what he and Cspace sorta makes me feel guilty. I -have- been the...as a few of you people like to name me..."factor" Of many conflicts here. Why? Because they think I'm easy prey, since I RP. I have a decent life, I flirt with girls alot, I know more than half our city population, and they can all smile and greet me by name, ask me how I'm doing, etc. etc. (note, the population is near 1000 people...a little over) Simply put, all of you people who think I live and breath thieving and fox. You're wrong, my favorite hobby IS trying to steal things out from people's noses...It's fun, to me. and my favorite animal IS the fox, this doesn't mean I'm a psycho. So in a way, this makes me feel a little guilty, like I'm once again, a "factor" to the clan. But oh well, I couldn't control the way KC reacted...right?

---Ruckus the Rogue

[Cspace]

Every clan or community has negative situations come up now and then. There is always a "rotten apple" who wants to spread trouble. The problem isn't the existence of these few, it is how they are treated. Putting them in the spotlight or taking them seriously is the cause of the actual problems for the group. If everyone would just treat these situations for what they are then we would be fine. At the same time, if everyone can act responsibly we won't need to worry about the amplification thereof with which a problem can arise. We can never expect 100% of the clan to be at this level of responsibility and we can never expect a 100% happy clan. The existence of problems cannot be eliminated. What can be decreased greatly, however, is their impact.

Instead of dwelling on the few who caused problems, why not think about the many who are fine members? I would say without doubt that the few "troublemakers" are well outnumbered, we shouldn't take them as the embodiment of our "troubled" clan. Hehe

I just think we should go back to our crazy yet often sensible ways.

The problem is those things can last forever so need to keep recruiting. Yep, it does stink, but it's a part of moving that this place can't survive without. We get some good members, and some, er, disappointing ones.  But we need new members to keep going on, so as long as people don't give this place won't fall.

This could not be more true. An exclusive clan which pushes away new members could never last. We shouldn't complain about the "quality" of new recruits and dwell on the greatness of an old clan. We should look at the situation we have today and use it to engineer an even greater future than the past of which we speak. Some think it won't happen, and as long as you don't it won't in your mind. But when the fire ignites again and everyone tries to make the place the clan in which to be again... I can guarantee that it will happen.

Hey, it only took a few "cowboys" in early 2002 to make SeeD something, today should be no exception.

Actually, as long as Cspace is here it won't fall.  If it was just him somehow then he'd probably get a thousand in more in a few weeks.

Hey, if all of us here would want another thousand in a few weeks we can get it to happen.

... Not sure that I'd recommend four digits so quickly, hehe... But with a little work we can leave our minor activity issues behind, that would be for sure.