[Mrb1]

lol
^Spam^

[Baseballl]

Cspace, all of this keeps happening and I'm trying to show people the light so they can follow it. SeeD isn't changing yet, fights still happen over stupid things. Look at Sajones and Jaguar, my point exactly. Look at Ryo, he has an Anti Seed sig. He shouldn't even be on these boards. This place can change, but not when we are light on these rebels.

What Bigbro did only proved my point. People WANT to make change, then that 1% try to shoot them down. His point about me not being active when I wasn't a mod, if only he could prove that Everyone here knows that I've been around, even Cspace. I was in the chat almost daily, ask Kimo. Bigbro, please don't accuse people without knowing what really happened.

[CongressJon]

Base's post had a lot of meaning behind it. As a clan, we can be perceived as many things, many ways. It all depends on many factors - Your own personal views, your experiences within SeeD, everything like that. Putting all of these factors to use, it is logical that a lot of people like and/or dislike SeeD, or just certain aspects of it. However, Base's post was not without merit.

The point is, there are some things that just must stop. You don't like SeeD, or something about it? Talk about it with Cspace, or the person causing the problem. If you just can't stand it anymore, so much that you're going to just be a troublemaker: always one to rag someone, make that sarcastic remark, try to bring someone down, then gosh darnit, take it out somewhere else! That's one big thing that some people just can't seem to get. You're angry, you're pissed at someone, you want to scream your guts out or curse that person to kingdom come. Do you know what you should do? Use. Common. Sense. Talk about it with someone. Punch your pillow. Scream at a mirror, for all it matters. But you shouldn't take it out here, with everyone looking at your words. It only makes you look much, much worse in the eyes of your peers, and, in general, you will tarnish your overall image.

There are many reasons people might want to join SeeD or CurvedSpace. To discuss Runescape. To talk about gaming, life, whatever the forums permit. Gosh darnit, just to talk about something, and be heard. If you're going to stay in a big community like this for a reason like that, and flame, test mods, whatever Base said, then ask yourself these two questions. "Why am I here now?" and "What do I do here?" If both of them don't relate to positive reasons, then why would you persist at disobeying and harrassing others?

The point is this - If you could use some help, whether if you're the victim or the antagonist, you can get it. Ask Cspace or a moderator. Put up a post or poll. Maybe you just need to talk with someone in the community. But, in the end, if you are really just here to cause trouble, why do you even persist?

There's me

[Raktor]

If you'd been active when you didn't have power, you would have noticed more of these posts had come and gone, with no change.

[Baseballl]

So since all these posts go without change means I can't make a difference?? When I want change, I don't beg Cspace or flame people, I MOTIVATE THE CLAN. There is a topic about RS that says people get things done when they are motivated, so lets motivate people in the clan to change the clan for the better.

These arguments here RUIN THE CLAN. Lets stop doing this and HELP THE CLAN.

As for me not being active, I made over 150 posts (I stopped counting at that) when I wasn't a mod. Please explain to me how I was inactive. I actually have EVIDENCE of my statements, look in my profile.

[Mrb1]

Pwnd.

[Maxi]

BigBro, bringing the problems to the very topic made to stop them doesn't work. Base made a post to say no to flaming, yet you go ahead with accusations.. whether they're true or not. No point denying that you're suspicious of Base, but why mouth about it here? You have a problem with him, sort it out peacefully in your own place.

[Kimojuno]

Okay I'm going to comment on this, and don't get me wrong, this isn't targeted to any specific person. People are on here writing these posts, which I agree with, and then someone comes on and makes a comment like "Ban him" "You suck" etc.

Now instead of ANYONE making a negative comment, such as the two excuses above (that I mentioned), why not just keep your mouth shut or just tell a moderator? And frankly the thing here is I've noticed a lot of moderators and/or super moderators who have been starting stuff, and frankly this doesn't show any new member what kind of clan we are, a clan is something that must stick together not fall apart.

And this is what we're seeing here, not saying there isn't a chance of course, but if no one can work together then frankly I don't get why you even comment. IF you don't have something nice to say, don't comment at all, no ones above the rules here. And yes I'm just a member, and no I've never really come into issues before, and yes I should stay out of it I know that.

I've been pushed into making a comment, because I'm tired of all the negative comments, if you can't handle it give it to someone who can, which means a STAFF member. This would be moderators, supers, or even an admin (Cspace). And if you are a moderator, etc, you should show a good example. This is not directed at anyone specific, so don't assume it is because it's not, and the point is EVERYONE is affected by arguments.

We've lost members, even if you don't like them, they were members. I mean nice or not, you shouldn't even make a comment, I know-again-I'm only a member but really if I see this I know you do. We need to work together and not start yelling at someone, because their grammar or spelling is of, if I don't know how to spell proper then I'm sorry but that's me.

If I talk in all caps or use LEET, then that's my choice, you don't have to read my posts. And you could always just ask me nicely and calm, and if I don't listen and start to flame you, then just tell a moderator and/or someone higher. If I don't flame you and calmly explain I like talking in leet, then you should simply except this, and move on. You don't have to read my post or even read all of it.

You just need to get along with others, if they hate you that's their business, fighting is not always the best option. And flaming never is, no I don't speak for anyone but myself here, and if you agree I thank you. If you don't that's your oppinion, just please think before you post, because it does hurt people whether you realize it or not.

~ Kimojuno - Thank you for reading and please let peace fall over these forums.

This post has been edited by Kimojuno: 06 December 2004 - 03:10 AM

[Cspace]

Cspace, all of this keeps happening and I'm trying to show people the light so they can follow it. SeeD isn't changing yet, fights still happen over stupid things. Look at Sajones and Jaguar, my point exactly. Look at Ryo, he has an Anti Seed sig. He shouldn't even be on these boards. This place can change, but not when we are light on these rebels.

What Bigbro did only proved my point. People WANT to make change, then that 1% try to shoot them down. His point about me not being active when I wasn't a mod, if only he could prove that   Everyone here knows that I've been around, even Cspace. I was in the chat almost daily, ask Kimo. Bigbro, please don't accuse people without knowing what really happened.

I understand what you're saying, but I think you may be missing the point I'm trying to make. You could be writing 100% what should happen, but who is actually causing the problems? Before, they were just conflicting members who didn't want to disrupt the clan itself for the most part but just had grudges with each other. Now? I wouldn't be so sure. Previously banned members were causing the brunt of the problems, obviously "not wanting to disrupt anything" isn't really applying to them. Two others joined in and right now I am not sure of their motivation.

For those who are trying to disrupt things (almost all to whom this applies), are they going to listen to posts explaining how we can improve the community? For them, they're probably laughing their heads off thinking about how easy it is to get a leader to write a speech about them. By doing very little, they can throw the place into an uproar. The "elementary school bullies" would want nothing other than to mess with SeeDs because of the attention they would get.

Of those who are not banned, who is causing problems, where are the problems caused, and to what magnitude are they existing? If they have any regard for the clan maybe they will listen to reason, if they don't, well, any post which will benefit the clan will be ignored. So basically the only ones who would pay any attention are those who are already fine for the most part, but for them we will be harming the atmosphere by bringing back the thought of old situations which are over as well.

Your intentions are good, I'm not coming down on you. I am just saying that "talking about what should be done" and actually trying to improve the place are different. Talking about it will do nothing when the problem consists of members who don't care about improving the place. Actively doing something will help. Trust me, what will help the community more than anything is not a speech and some mediators, it is a change in the atmosphere. What the speech and mediators do would be a fix, an improvement in the atmosphere would be a long-term prevention. We have written many "speeches", of all of us who have (combined) it would probably total over 40 pages. What explanations can do has been done I think, we have gone from a 20% problem to a 1% problem as you said. Those who are causing problems now won't be affected by explanations, if anything one should try to make them want to stop instead of just telling them to stop if there is any possibility of not just banning them. We can do this. It is easy... Change the atmosphere, we are capable of it but we need to do it. If 70% of the clan will try we can be through with this. All it takes is some optimism, nothing more, nothing less. It will spread. Trust me.

No, we aren't perfect. Yes, there is room for improvement. What Base, Kimo, and others are saying is so true... Yet some just ignore everything they and others say. I will be blunt about it: I will mention no names, but they will know if it applies to them. What a few members are doing is very childish and really seems like something you'd expect in an elementary school cafeteria. They have no regard for anything here. Those few who cause problems... It goes beyond "grudges". There are many like them on the internet. They are really all the same, and since the internet isn't real-life they feel that they can do anything. They want attention and they enjoy causing trouble. They are like the few individuals here who start problems, then get their friends to join in to amplify the situation to the greatest possible extent. Sometimes even in an organized fashion. Having fun, spending five minutes trying to ruin what many spend months and even years trying to create. They are like the "destroy 'em all clans", some PKing clans, elementary school bullies, and the diseases who enjoy hacking into websites giving their webmasters nervous breakdowns... For what? Some petty fun. I can guarantee that people will be laughing over what I say here.

You know what? Our good members should not care if they laugh, for that is what loses one respect more quickly than anything else. Selfish individuals who either refuse to or cannot put themselves in the shoes of everyone here who try to build the place. For them, I am willing to forgive, but until they stop they have lost all of my respect. I am sure that the same applies to many others as well.

As for when we will be rid of insults and whatnot... We will never be 100% free of them. It is virtually impossible. Many great communities such as RS Community have more situations than us (and I'm talking percentages), they are just treated as they are and they don't affect the atmosphere. Troublemakers don't stick around there because of it and nothing gets blown out of proportions. For example almost every three posts in their RS suggestion forum has pointlessly negative criticism somewhere, but no, they aren't "conflict-ridden" by any means. One thing here and there should not hold any more water here than anywhere else.

Let's not give those who try to cause problems what they want, let's just all be responsible and they will either go away or change. They are a burden for some, but trust me, not nearly the same burden as what I go through. I find no need to address it because it in many respects is normal, but others don't need to blow things out of proportions regardless of how stupid things can be at times.

Lol, and as for Ryoko and Alpha and anyone else who joined them... They're friends of mine in real life and they're joking. I don't know why, perhaps they hear of all the nonsense going on here and they are trying to show us really how stupid it is. I do not know, I will talk to them about it (to my knowledge they don't even play RS, lol...), but our only actual problems right now are the few others who were systematically harassing members here. Three members and some who were banned... Something we can handle. The atmosphere, that will require some passive effort from everyone. Once the atmosphere is lighter then situations won't be as bad, not the other way around as easily.

[Goto]

Things really have been a lot better, while things might not seem all that much quieter, it's only a few people causing problems when before it was a good fraction of SeeD. Certainly sounds like an improvement to me.

Bigbro, I don't think Base's activeness really has a lot to do with any of this. Here's how I sort of see it though...
He was going through some problems, that was stressing him out a fair bit, and that resulted in him losing his mod powers. He wasn't very active even during a lot of that period, because of stuff in real life. He manages to resolve some of that, becomes more active and friendlier again, and gets his mod rights back because of that. Makes sense to me, he was back and active a fair bit before his mod rights were given back, it certainly seems to me that's why he got them back.

I may not have been here quite as long as you Base, but I've seen what these type of topics do. They're always done with the best intentions, and for a while they were actually useful, but they no longer do anything but say "We have problems", causing damage to the general atmosphere of the clan. That's because there are very few actual troublemakers anymore, and all of them have seen a ton of these type of topics. They obviously haven't listened to any of the earlier ones, and will continue not to listen to them. The rest of us read them and want to help, but can't really do much to improve matters (or are already trying to). This of course leads to a feeling of hopelessness, that nothing will be able to help stabilise SeeD further. This just makes it more likely for conflicts to break out.

... I don't know if any of that made any sense, I was in a bit of a hurry and haven't proofread it, so it could be a little confusing. Basically I know you (and everyone else) means well with these kind of topics, and I can always tell that you're just trying to improve the situation. But it's a bit counter-productive, it makes people focus on the negative rather than the positive.

This post is getting a bit long and rambly now, so I'd better leave it to somebody who can actually form a coherent argument.

[Cspace]

We obviously all have the same goal here. Those causing problems made themselves outsiders, and while we all agree with what has been said by Base, Kimo, and everyone else, just reading the post won't help the place on its own. We need a plan.

Optimism.

Optimism is what gave SeeD the juice it needed to grow in the first place.

Optimism created the benign atmosphere during much of late 2002-2003.

Optimism ended many conflicts caused by grudges.

Optimism will cure the sickness which has befallen our overall atmosphere.

We don't need a systematic approach or any complicated schemes... It is easy, just try to have fun here. Do what is fun, post what you find humorous, and don't be afraid that something is slightly off in a thread if it has at least some purpose (even if to get a decent laugh). Lighten the mood, and that will ultimately eliminate the breeding ground for our larger conflicts.

It is that easy, we just have to change our mindset a little.

[X Zolon]

Hail to thee, speakers of truth!

I know I am indeed a volatile person. I will jump at an attack on my person and explode. I'm easily angered. But when I am happy, you know it. I love having fun on the forums. This place was awesome.. about a year ago.

Back in those days, things were great. We were small, active, and together. This was before any conflicts decided to spout, I believe. People were close. I remember joining and instantly making friends with all of our officials. I had fun ideas that people liked! People said " I like this guy, he's creative and he knows what he's talking about!" And it was true. Sure, I equalled Hyper in post coutn because we had an Uber-Spam fest in the Insanity Zone. But these were amazing times.

However.. things turned to conflicts later that year. I believe the first one started when two people had a plot to attack and frame me (Which did happen, but nothing came into effect over it.) We fougth them off though. We worked together to smite the conflict beast where it stood. And it took a team. Me, Base, Star, Goto, and countless others worked so long, our fingers hurt from typing, our parents (Well, mine anyway) Told us to get a life or they would shut down the computers permanently, and we still pulled through.

That was possibly a good thing. Believe it or not, I found it fun. I learned a lot about conflict resolution. One of my techniques was gold (Until people threw it out the window) And, we learned to solve our differences by working as a team.

Things have gotten down recently. That's because we aren't being a community! We are simply using this place to talk about our stats. WHere the clan is supposed to go. THat's it. We need to have fun! Come on people, it isn't hard. Let loose on the forums.. goof off (Within reason) And you attackers (Zolon, this means you) calm down. Don't attack people at ALL. There is no reason too! Instead of attacking.. comment on something positive.

SeeD was, is, and always will be a great place. Never EVER EVER NEVER lose that thought. Now.. go out and have some fun (Or I'ma cut you...)

[Cspace]

Then let us be rid of the negativity! We can bring back the old atmosphere! Everyone talks about how good it was, and then when I describe what should be done to bring it back everyone is like "no, no..."

I'm going to sound like Aragorn here, don't laugh

Hold your ground! Hold your ground.

Sons/daughters of Balamb, of Trabia, of Galbadia, my brothers/sisters,

I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me.

A day may come when the courage of SeeD fails,

when we forsake our friends

and break all bonds of fellowship,

but it is not this day.

An hour of wolves and shattered shields,

when the age of SeeD comes crashing down,

but it is not this day.

This day we fight!

For all that you hold dear on this good Earth,

I bid you stand, Men/Women of the *something*!!

*falls off chair due to reasons relating to caffeination*

[skenasis]

Then let us be rid of the negativity! We can bring back the old atmosphere! Everyone talks about how good it was, and then when I describe what should be done to bring it back everyone is like "no, no..."  

I'm going to sound like Aragorn here, don't laugh  



QUOTE
Hold your ground! Hold your ground.

Sons/daughters of Balamb, of Trabia, of Galbadia, my brothers/sisters,

I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me.

A day may come when the courage of SeeD fails,

when we forsake our friends

and break all bonds of fellowship,

but it is not this day.

An hour of wolves and shattered shields,

when the age of SeeD comes crashing down,

but it is not this day.

This day we fight!

For all that you hold dear on this good Earth,

I bid you stand, Men/Women of the *something*!!

*falls off chair due to reasons relating to caffeination*

blame me for the men/women change, i chided cspace for having it as 'men' (i tried to get him to add a 'happy now darkie?' but it didnt work )

anywho. *grabs pompoms and starts cheerleading* that is what SeeD's on about, now ill stop this useless spout! (yes, i know, spam, but i think im just proving the 'spam can be good for getting humour into it' point, correct me if im wrong

wheeeeeeee!

This post has been edited by DarkDream: 06 December 2004 - 05:45 AM

[Cspace]

Happy now Darkie?