[grandrial]

True

[grandrial]

Have you done the poll? We need all the votes its a bit too close for me.

[Amelie]

I did.

Then I was banned.

[Star Jedi]

Leftyy, please stop posting here. If you ever want to be unbanned then stay away for awhile, that's the only way. Sorryz.

[Bodom]

15 people have voted, we own you

[grandrial]

We win and Alex gets to express himself anyway he see's fit

[Star Jedi]

It's a picture We could easily ask Alex about what he thinks... I don't think he wants a simple picture to cause this much fustration

[CongressJon]

We win and Alex gets to express himself anyway he see's fit 

Actually, I wasn't just waiting until 15. Seeing as it happened so quickly, I think we should give it more time...

[CongressJon]

Very sorry for double-post, but I posted that before looking at the poll. [flip-flop] For the moment, it will stay as-is. I won't take the poll down, nor this topic, but for now it will stay right where it is. However, in the event of many... protests against everyone's judgment, this topic may be open for discussion again. [/flip-flop]

Thanks to everyone who voted! You've just made a big difference! Feel proud o' yourselves, and give yourself a pat on the back.

...

Can't... reach... back... gaaah...

[Kowboy]

Have you done the poll? We need all the votes its a bit too close for me.

I wasn't aware we could recruit peopole to vote for us.

Edit- Leftyy is also banned; therefore his vote is ineligeble, he won't be experiencing the outcome either way.

This post has been edited by Supernova: 20 December 2004 - 12:20 AM

[Serenarocks]

Guys, what about gay rights? Alex has the right to express his feelings. You may find the piccy offensive, but millions of people arond the globe wouldnt.

[ratzaroony]

Guys, what about gay rights? Alex has the right to express his feelings. You may find the piccy offensive, but millions of people arond the globe wouldnt.

He has the right to be gay, but he doesnt have the right to post pictures that arent suitable for some of our younger members.

[Dark Alex666]

I like the picture, I wont remove it and if anyone removes it I will add it back. If you dont like it, turn show signatures off.

[Goto]

Look, I wish there wasn't a problem with allowing these kind of things. As we've seen, most people really have no problem with it. But in trying to make this place acceptable for children (and in many cases more to the point, to those that supervise the children), sometimes these things have to be done.

Hypothetical situation: SeeD loses half its active member base over schools/parents/workplaces getting offended at this and other such pictures and banning SeeD. Would the freedom of speech of one person be worth the downfall of SeeD? There are many things allowed out in public that are still not talked about in front of children, at least not by anybody responsible. I think the fact that the two people are homosexual has little to do with it, I haven't seen anybody using that as an arguing point. A picture of two topless people kissing just isn't an image that is found as socially acceptable to young children by most parents and guardians. As Base has pointed out, there is no age restriction on the forums (anymore, still not sure when that happened  ), and I know for a fact of several people aged 9-12. Now while they may be quite mature and open about such things, their parents most likely will not want them exposed to it, straight or homosexual. We don't particularly want to risk losing some very good members over somebodies right to an avatar, do we? 
Furthermore, as has been seen, it isn't just those that are a bit younger that could be banned for something like this. Star got in pretty big trouble over it, and she's 16. I'm the same age, and could well imagine a similar situation (although at school we're not really "allowed" to surf the web at will, I'm just using me as an example) for myself. MoS commented with the same thing, and he's considerably older. I think a simple avatar is perhaps too minor an issue to risk so many losing their freedom of speech, and I think you'd agree if you were banned due to it. Added on to the fact that he put this picture up despite an earlier request to take it down, and it means he most likely knows what he's doing is likely to upset people, and doesn't care. I hear a lot of talk about "freedom of speech", but technically it only exists here because Cspace alllows it to. He could moderate anything he wants and be totally within his rights, he owns all of this. If he decides the image is unacceptable (or if others representing him, such as a few of us), then it is not against free speech for them to ask him to remove it or to remove it themselves. Otherwise wouldn't it to be freedom of speech to moderate anything, therefore leaving us as moderators completely useless? Couldn't members flame at will, and talk about things forbidden in the rules with us being helpless to stop them?

To anybody that doesn't know, Star was almost banned from SeeD during school time due to this picture. MoS is afraid to browse the forums at his work for fear or somebody else seeing it. I don't think a mere picture in one persons sig is really worth losing members over. There have been other cases of people getting in trouble over pictures like this, due to their parents or those around them. Now some of you might say "Well thats their problem", but surely they can't help the fact that other people are close-minded about it. Who knows how many people come to SeeD and leave due to things like this without posting, or how many young kids are forced to leave because their parents don't want them viewing things like that. May seem a bit silly to us, but it's not exactly fair on them...

I think the fact that the picture is homosexual is irrelevant. In fact I'm sure people would be a lot more inclined towards removing it if it was a topless guy and a girl, even if there was no actual 'porn' aspect to it. Simply because it's two guys kissing, suddenly people are afraid to seem oppressive over a minority.

Beyond this, Dark Alex has been asked in the past by the moderator team to remove that same picture. Whether that decision was right or not, he chose to add it back in rather than talking about the decision with the mods. Now I could be wrong, but to me that makes it sound like he's just doing this to get back at someone or something.

[Dark Alex666]

Good written. I have been asked twice to remove it. And now you want me to remove it again. In a mod forum here, that only mods+ can see, it was a poll. My picture won and I am allowed to have it. If you are afraid to browse the forum on work etc. turn show signatures off. Then you cant see it. BTW, it was SS3 which "asked" me to remove it both times.