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Crash The Hubble Space Telescope?

#1 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Cspace {lang:icon}

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Post icon  Posted 11 February 2005 - 10:10 PM

QUOTE
A White House decision to cut funding for a Hubble Space Telescope servicing mission and dump the observatory into a remote stretch of ocean waters at a future date is sure to incite debate in scientific, engineering and policy-making circles.

Intensive work has been under way at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center to develop telerobotic servicing skills for the Hubble Space Telescope in the event that a space shuttle crew is never again sent to the orbiting facility. Aerospace firms in the United States and in Canada have teamed with NASA to develop a Hubble Robotic Vehicle Deorbit Module.

Either a robotic or shuttle-based servicing option reportedly would cost in excess of $1 billion. That price tag is viewed by the White House, according to sources, as not affordable given other high-priority and more expensive efforts, such as the space shuttle fleet's return to flight and NASA’s "moon, Mars and beyond" agenda.

Sources said the White House plans to scuttle Hubble is part of NASA’s 2006 budget request, with some money in the budget allocated to using a propulsion module coupled to Hubble for its safe but destructive deorbiting.

The cutting of the Hubble servicing mission from NASA’s 2006 budget request was first reported by Space News on its Web site Friday and on Space.com.

Leading the fight
Sen. Barbara Mikulski, D-Md., a fervent Hubble supporter whose state is home to both the Goddard Space Flight Center and the Space Telescope Science Institute, issued a statement late Friday in which she vowed to continue advocating an Hubble servicing mission.

(Rest can be read at http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6862256/)

QUOTE
NASA sees budget hike for 2006, but not enough to save Hubble

Eds: AMs.

By MARCIA DUNN

AP Aerospace Writer

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) -- With the moon on its horizon, NASA sees a slight increase in the budget proposed by President Bush on Monday, but it's not enough to save the Hubble Space Telescope.

Only $93 million in the space agency's $16.45 billion budget would go toward Hubble's survival: $75 million to develop a kamikaze robot that would steer the orbiting observatory into the ocean at the end of its lifetime, and $18 million to try to eke out as much scientific observing time as possible from the telescope through clever remote controlling.

No money is in the budget to send either a robotic repairman or shuttle astronauts to Hubble to extend its lifetime, a decision that is sure to anger astronomers and members of Congress. Late last year, a National Academy of Sciences panel recommended one final visit to Hubble by astronauts.

The proposed budget for NASA -- 2.4 percent higher than last year's -- sets aside $9.6 billion for science, aeronautics and exploration, and $6.7 billion for exploration capabilities. That includes $4.5 billion for the space shuttle program, on track for resuming flights this year for the first time since the 2003 Columbia disaster, and $1.85 billion for the international space station.

Just over a year ago, Bush announced a new exploration vision for NASA geared around returning astronauts to the moon by 2020. Everything now revolves around that.

NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe said even though the space agency is not getting as much money as envisioned by the president a year ago, a 2.4 percent budget increase is "rather remarkable" given the federal deficit and the spending cuts elsewhere in the government.

As for Hubble, O'Keefe said the National Academy of Sciences panel presented such a bleak assessment of a robotic mission to install new parts on the space telescope that it made little sense to presume success and, consequently, no money was put aside for such an endeavor.

"We'll see. In a month's time, there may be an epiphany," O'Keefe said. "But I think it's going to be a very difficult mountain, a steep hill, to climb."

O'Keefe reiterated his long-held view that a shuttle flight to Hubble poses too many dangers in the wake of the Columbia catastrophe.

"It is a judgment call and this is a judgment call that is my responsibility for however period of time that I reside here," said O'Keefe, who will leave NASA in less than two weeks to assume the chancellor's job at Louisiana State University.

(http://www.washingto...3-2005Feb8.html)

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As everyone knows, the Hubble Space Telescope is our greatest orbital observatory at this time; no other like it will be launched within a decent timeframe, the earliest possibility being around 2011 to my knowledge. The Hubble Space Telescope has taken many great photographs of the deepest reaches of space, recently opening a window to the edge of the known universe (at least as far as light could have traveled according to the "Big Bang" timeframe). Some of the following are among Hubble's thousands of images:

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^ A lensing cluster; this shows the effects of the fourth dimension/gravity on light ^

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Do you agree with the White House's plans to crash the spacecraft and close this cosmic window for these reasons? It has been up there for years, being improved and upgraded many times to expand our horizons on an extremely large scale. If it can be serviced then the telescope will continue to lead the field of astronomy for years to come.


This is what I think in my honest opinion:

If they want to increase funds for human missions to the Moon and Mars, then please don't take the funding from Hubble to do it.

If it craters then our universe will shrink enormously for most likely almost a decade, if not more as a result of the budget changes. If they want to bring the shuttles back into operation as is part of their plan, then do it and service the telescope.

I am sure that other ways can exist to bring Mars closer, but why must the end of Hubble be one of them?

(I edited the angry parts out, lol...)
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#2 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Spikeout {lang:icon}

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 11:16 PM

no they shudnt bring down hubble ! ive seen its great pics at least keep it in space until a new one is built. crash hubble on the moon as a reminder or keep it in a museum at least



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#3 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Cspace {lang:icon}

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 02:11 AM

Just so everyone knows, I don't wish to start a political debate or anything, lol... While it is linked to the White House it is also NASA's decision, I am just talking about the general plan and whether it should be carried out.
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#4 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Star Jedi {lang:icon}

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 02:12 AM

Idealistically, of course I wouldn't want it to go down. It has done a lot and has been a great help, letting us see and discover what we could not alone. Yes, I would spend the millions of dollars to get it fixed...

Although.. Realistically, would the millions do much? The HST is quite old, and is soon to break down because of the radiation, and the what-not. It maybe has a life span of 4-5 more years if we leave it up there. But what happens when it comes to the end of that life span is what scares me a bit...Where would it land? It could land in New York City, It could land over in Europe, or it could land in a cornfield in the middle of nowhere. But I'm sure wherever it would land could definitely hurt one or many people, and definitely make someone out there sue NASA. If we are to take action, we must plan now. Making the robot to fly up to the HST to make a track for it to land in the ocean could take 3-4 years, time that really shouldn't be wasted.

Even if we spend the millions to fix it, we would be risking a remaining shuttle that NASA has, and also put astronauts at risk (-The Challenger..?-). Instead of using the money on the HST, why not use it to plan and make something better? Even with the continuous updates the HST could get, it is soon to break down no matter what...

Don't take this the wrong way, though; I would love for the HST to remain where it is. I also wouldn't want any of the funding to go towards the spacestation (I really think that thing is completely useless..). But if the money could be used to plan another 'scope like the HST, then I'd think it would be worth it.

Also, this is out of my own current knowledge of the HST, so pardon me if I'm mostly wrong about it. One of my science teachers is pretty mad about it, heh.
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#5 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Cspace {lang:icon}

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 02:37 AM

QUOTE
The HST is quite old, and is soon to break down because of the radiation, and the what-not. It maybe has a life span of 4-5 more years if we leave it up there.

The telescope is able to be serviced however, the parts that wear out have been replaced when additions were added on (such as sensors for other wavelengths and instruments to increase resolution). The telescope has actually been built and rebuilt in space numerous times, it is hardly the same telescope as it was when it was first launched (if I'm correct, over 10 times the original resolution). Its plans were to last at least through 2010, and could very realistically go past that if they wanted to.

QUOTE
Making the robot to fly up to the HST to make a track for it to land in the ocean could take 3-4 years, time that really shouldn't be wasted.

As of the time of my internship at Goddard, before their plans on crashing it into the ocean they were building a robotic thruster to safely crash it when the time came. Unless those plans changed (which is possible) they were going to install it with this now-canceled service mission anyway, for when the time came. That is a definite concern, but not something I think should bring it down sooner than otherwise.

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Even if we spend the millions to fix it, we would be risking a remaining shuttle that NASA has, and also put astronauts at risk (-The Challenger..?-).

That's true... However, another perspective (whether it justifies this or not, I do not know) is that the astronauts understand and accept this risk. Many are itching to go back into space regardless of the shuttle's risks, and right now they are finding ways to improve the safety as well (and have made a bit of progress).

QUOTE
Instead of using the money on the HST, why not use it to plan and make something better?

They're working on a project for another telescope right now to my knowledge, although it is still on the drawing board and planned for around 2011.

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These are good points that you brought up, and I'm afraid are the main sources of doubt in the mission.
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#6 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Traver {lang:icon}

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 10:02 AM

I don't really know if they should crash it or not, but I do know that those pics are really beautiful eek4.gif
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#7 {lang:macro__useroffline}   CongressJon {lang:icon}

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 02:42 PM

I don't know much about Hubble, as Traver said.. However, I really think it's made some landmarks in American history, showing us the depths of deep space, and the beauties of it. And besides, if they were to crash it, they should do it in North Korea. No more nukes! icon_sweatdrop.gif
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#8 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Spikeout {lang:icon}

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 02:58 PM

mount it on the moon keep it there and look at stuff there lol



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#9 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Cspace {lang:icon}

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 06:25 PM

QUOTE(Hippie @ Feb 12 2005, 09:58 AM)
mount it on the moon keep it there and look at stuff there lol
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They're highly considering building a telescope on the Moon actually. thumb.gif

Not anytime soon, but potentially in the 2030-2040 timeframe.

There are a million propositions for telescopes though, hehe. Everything from a telescope on the moon, to a dual orbital telescope (stereo vision to determine distance), to my personal favorite of an array of mirrors simulating what would otherwise be a massive perhaps 100 foot-or-more-wide scope. bandit.gif

You know... With the upcoming technology in telescopes it is not farfetched to say that we will before the end of the century be able to view planets around other stars.
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#10 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Sproogle {lang:icon}

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 05:50 PM

Before we go poking around in space, we need to fix what is wrong on this planet. I say spend all of the money on something that can help us. Like cancer research or something, not for taking pretty pictures of stars.

This post has been edited by Sproogle: 13 February 2005 - 05:51 PM

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#11 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Cspace {lang:icon}

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 11:45 PM

QUOTE(Sproogle @ Feb 13 2005, 12:50 PM)
Before we go poking around in space, we need to fix what is wrong on this planet. I say spend all of the money on something that can help us. Like cancer research or something, not for taking pretty pictures of stars.
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The funding can go into many different fields, and with that justification many sciences (for example certain branches of biology and anthropology) would be eliminated because they don't have immediate tangible benefits from the public's perspective. bluetongue.gif

NASA's research is not only in space, and contrary to what many believe what they find in space does indeed have direct correlations to what is going on here. For example, being able to predict solar storms (which would knock out satellites), understanding weather, gaining more information about geology, many military and intelligence technologies and implementations, and many other things.

Infact, not to get technical or anything but there is a lot of medical research going on in space which cannot be conducted anywhere else. Research that does impact potential future medicines on Earth. grnwink.gif

Not to mention robotic and computer technologies to go along with everything, hehe.

As for the "pretty pictures", they're much more than just that. bluetongue.gif If one's not studying them they may seem that way, but they help with a number of scientific endeavors in a variety of fields. If we're talking closer to home, Hubble is also able to keep a close eye on the other planets except Mercury, Venus, and Earth (light would burn up the optics). If something happens and we need a view, even as far out as Neptune, Hubble would be there. Just like when the comet hit Jupiter. grnwink.gif

After all, science comes before technology in many cases. There will be a need for astronomical research in the future, many possibilities exist from human exploration to saving the planet from the next killer asteroid. All of it first requires research, and if the research isn't funded then we will get nowhere.

... And what about the interest of understanding who we are, from where we came, and to where we're going? To not have at least a slight interest there one would have to be voluntarily ignorant. biglaugh.gif
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#12 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Bmatt {lang:icon}

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Posted 16 February 2005 - 02:54 PM

I dont think they should bring Hubble down yet. It seems to me that Hubble is MORE than just a really cool looking space telescope that gives us "pretty pictures".

Its a symbol of humanities desire to know what is out there, and our desperate struggle against the oppressive loneliness of space. Without Hubble, we would not know lots of things that we could do with knowing. Without Hubble we would not know just how much money and how big of a risk we are willing to take to go further than we ever have done before.


also, Without Hubble i have nothing to do for my Astronomy project (build a scale modal of a working telescope and write how it is beneficial to astronomy. its suprisingly hard to make a scale modal of Hubble you know). so lets just leave it up there until its orbit starts to decay dangerously without hope of fixing it.

This post has been edited by Bmatt54321: 16 February 2005 - 02:55 PM

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#13 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Sproogle {lang:icon}

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Posted 18 February 2005 - 03:29 AM

Oof, shot down.... bluetongue.gif
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#14 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Ferret Overlord {lang:icon}

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Posted 18 February 2005 - 09:11 PM

I think they should, because NASA's an aeronautics association. It has it's own funding, and if it has funding set aside already, then what difference does it make? It's not like all that money's being immediatley yanked out of nowhere. The HTS is:

A) A very useful tool for detailing the universe.

B) Not going to crash into the earth. When it dies they'll either tow it down or it'll turn into another peice of space junk.

C) The only telescope I know about until the ISS is built.
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#15 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Cspace {lang:icon}

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Posted 19 February 2005 - 07:09 PM

QUOTE
It has it's own funding, and if it has funding set aside already, then what difference does it make? It's not like all that money's being immediatley yanked out of nowhere.

Well... actually it is. 1zhelp.gif Its funding - which is provided mostly by the government because it is part of the government - is being pulled over to work on future manned Moon and Mars missions which are not anytime soon. Its funding has been reduced to about $93 million basically just for a mission to bring it down.

QUOTE
Only $93 million in the space agency's $16.45 billion budget would go toward Hubble's survival: $75 million to develop a kamikaze robot that would steer the orbiting observatory into the ocean at the end of its lifetime, and $18 million to try to eke out as much scientific observing time as possible from the telescope through clever remote controlling.

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Not going to crash into the earth. When it dies they'll either tow it down or it'll turn into another peice of space junk.

Not entirely true, it would crash in the next few years to my knowledge if they cannot service it and pull it back into a safe orbit (since its orbit, like many other satellites, is gradually decaying). Something they are highly capable of doing, but they will need more than $93 million to do it.
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