[Baseballl]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying here...

Your clan war will not take place in our Interclan Relations Board, where we make relationships, not wars. The whole concept here is peace, Better Alive even wants peace. If someone wants peace, how you can make demands to go to war when both clans must show up.

I'm trying to tell you that a war doesn't correct anything Better Alive has done, but peace will generate more power to both clans. If a war is fought, SeeD will always get complained to by the loser and bragged about by the winner. If both clans decide to end this peacefully, then SeeD can ally with both and both clans can continue to thrive without conflict.

This situation is the same as the SeeD Vs. RS Rebels conflict. RS Rebels wanted war, we wanted peace. All we had to do was say we wouldn't fight and we never did. It ended, for the most part, peacefully. I could repeat myself again, war doesn't solve anything.

I'm not sure if you realize it, but a war doesn't "destroy" the clan. All it does is respawn their players (already said this). Your war doesn't mean anything, your word in peace means alot.

At this moment in time, SeeD can't ally with either of you until this is resolved peacefully. Your war, continued in our alliance, will hurt SeeD just as much as your clans. It would break this clan down the middle because who do we back up? As listed above, both sides will either brag or complain on our boards and nothing will be solved except the statement, "I told you so".

[Cspace]

To make things a little easier, may I suggest that we all come on SeeD Chat to discuss all this? Will surely be easier for you (I know how hard it is to convey so many points in a situation like this), and maybe some sort of agreement can be reached tonight.

Just a suggestion, but we have been in a ton of situations like these and could probably help if you'd like.

[Baseballl]

http://www.cspacezon...chat/index.html

[Jedi Luke]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying here...

Your clan war will not take place in our Interclan Relations Board, where we make relationships, not wars. The whole concept here is peace, Better Alive even wants peace. If someone wants peace, how you can make demands to go to war when both clans must show up.

He doesn't want peace. And I know a war doesn't destroy anyone, you are only repeating my own beliefs back to me. But you are seeing very little of the picture here; besides on your forum, he is constantly blackmailing and plotting against us. This "seventh month period of peace" is a ploy that he has NEVER mentioned to me besides on this forum. His whole clan has been hissing at me for the past week, saying they would show up for a rematch next sunday. That is the day our election results are to be released, and we have ohter plans. I am not "declaring" this war, only delaying it till the following week. I have no attachment to this war whatsoever, and would just as soon see Better Alive disapear from all involment in my own life. Even after he was banished, I offered him a peaceful coexsistance. He "agreeed" while behind the scenes stirring up pandamony against us. Now, my clan is eager for a retaliation. He has marked himself an enemy, and is now hiding behind his truce because we decided to fight back. After the truce, he will have a plethora of posionous threads lain out for us, and the truce will be disreguarded. As soon as he feels he has the upper hand. I only respond to his declaration of war. IF I do not, I will disgrace the Jedi by accomplishing the first Jedi no-show battle. You are not speaking down to a barbaric and uncivilized clan. I understand full well what you say. I only retaliate here for the Jedi honor, as he dispels and twists our image in the eyes of our former ally. That is an outrage.

[©allum]

Lets not insult him because of his name guys... Leftyy, you saw what happened to Sajones after he insulted Better Alive, don't act like him

K, sorry guys. :$

[Raktor]

I agree with the Jedi's view here, but I'm kind of confused. From what I've read, the Jedi's seem like SeeD, and Sith like TRR. Just my opinion.

[Cspace]

To make a long story short, SeeD has gone through a very similar situation recently which went on for months. One side wanting war in-game for seemingly personal reasons and us trying not to go to war because the purpose could not be fulfilled in that manner. In the end, as odd as it sounds, the pressure not to go to war from our direction caused their clan to dissolve (which was not our intention).

(If one of their members is reading this, I am not saying who the clan is because I don't wish to provoke anything, I am just trying to help the resolution of this situation)

Both sides seem confident in the wrongs of the other, both seem to want to end this, but at the same time everyone seems confident that the other side won't change. It is basically "I want the situation to improve but they won't let it improve" being said in both directions. Neither side is necessarily wrong.

Well if there is going to be a change, someone needs to create the turning point. Then the other needs to agree to it without trying to see another motive. Otherwise it will be very difficult to actually end this.

[Raktor]

Ehehe, TRR just disbanded, they're making a new clan anyway.

[Jedi Luke]

To be short, you have made an impression on me now. =) You are a splendid diplomat. We followed your same strategy up until just last sunday, when we met them in war after they showed up at our meeting. We did not want to be convicted of cowardice for the first time in our three year history. There were no other councilors present, so I made the decision to meet them in battle. I knew Better Alive would otherwise twist it into a victory, and disgrace us. The Jedi are very proud. How would you have handled such a situation, I am curious?

[Cspace]

I will edit this with my reply, but for now I'll say that the chat is still up if you'd like to come on in

[Katosan430]

bleh and blah and so on and so forth.....i have kept my cool for the entire period of these diplomatic talks, i havent falmed jedi luke 7 in ANYWAY on these forums, i have been a great peaceful diplomat thus far, with all respect jedi luke is doing nothing but worsening the situation by posting uncalled for untrue remarks about me, he calls me savage, barbaric, he insults my ENTIRE clan, blah blah blah. And the 7-month period of peace i wish to make with the help of SeeD and other clans is not a "farce" as lukas would like to make you all think it is, it is quite obvious that he has fallen to the dark side of life, i value peace, he obviously values war, i value some morals, i am forgiving, kind, and yes compassionate!!, my followers, my people are not of evil origin as jedi luke so strongly thinks, and if i wasnt banned from his forums, i would post the TRUE reasons why i was banned, i simply asked for reasonable democratic republic clan reforms that would give clan members a more freedom of speech, and a other exellent rights and the freedom to go pking without being banned or persecuted by the high council and other good freedoms. Did the council and a couple of twisted and "blinded" by the high council accept reasonable reforms, noo they did not, instead they banished, banned, and tarnished any reform i ever proposed, and through recent reports i've learnt that the high council has even more leaned to the edge of a communistic dictatorship, i offer a complete and total free democracy in my clan and on my forums, the "fallen jedi" who have broken away from the rs jedi realized the true evil nature and corruption of the high council and how easily they twist the minds of others, and they have grown a strong hatred for their former clan and have joined the RS Sith, don't let yourselves be turned into pawns, puppets by Jedi Luke the Deciever. Forgive me for posting what may be considered flames, but i couldn't let jedi luke get away with posting black mail and untrue damming remarks of my clan. I value peace over war, i really do, and my clan members have agreed to fight on april 17th, thats another thing! i was told about this by Scotty X0, a jedi that luke declared war on the sith, i was never told by anyone else, i happened to come across the jedi's declaration of war on these forums. And To Jedi Luke: NEVER EVER TRY TO QUESTION MY MOTIVES AND POWER AND PEACEFUL INTENTIONS, IT IS I WHO SHOULD BE QUESTIONING YOU AND YOUR TRUE GOVERNMENT! YOU HAVE TWISTED, BLINDED, PERVERTED ALL THE JEDI'S MINDS FOR 3 or 4 YEARS INTO BELIEVING THAT YOUR CLAN IS A DEMOCRACY, BAH HUMBUG! lol i love that word, bah humbug, bah humbug! lol. annyway, i tried for a peaceful resolution, but since YOU luke dont wish to agree to joining the pact, and since YOU without the consent of your clan members have decided to war with the sith and bypass the 7-month peace among all clans available, since i am left with no other choice, as a last resort, my clan will honor in FULL FREAKING FORCE shall UNLEASH THE TRUE POWER AND SIZE AND UNRELENTING ANGER AND HATRED OF THE RS SITH SHALL DESTROY THE ANTI-CHRIST LIKE JEDI!

[Cspace]

I lied, I'll just reply instead of edit

To be short, you have made an impression on me now. =) You are a splendid diplomat. We followed your same strategy up until just last sunday, when we met them in war after they showed up at our meeting. We did not want to be convicted of cowardice for the first time in our three year history. There were no other councilors present, so I made the decision to meet them in battle. I knew Better Alive would otherwise twist it into a victory, and disgrace us. The Jedi are very proud. How would you have handled such a situation, I am curious?

Actually, in terms of ideals SeeD kinda split in two during that period. Some wanted to change things and go to war and some wanted to hold our previous stance and maintain peace. I am not necessarily against a clan war, but what some don't realize is that when one starts over reasons unrelated to the game they rarely turn out any better than they started.

But I think in terms of clans there are two kinds of strength: Steadiness and the obvious physical strength. What has been proven is obviously that a clan of 80 can defeat a clan of five... But at the same time, the clan of five if steady and determined can keep from being slapped around by the clan of 80 if handled properly. Even though we were at least the size and strength of our previous adversary physically, the conflict did not end in the wilderness. In fact there were no confrontations in the wilderness. Words proved much more effective than even I realized, for their clan (which was of decent size) dissolved over the situation.

While the image of strength and honor may be at stake, a clan who can also demonstrate steadiness and a solid will to maintain the ideals which are right will also be respected. A clan should have both in balance to a certain extent, there are very few clans which can win war after war and focus only on victory that can stand the test of time.

We had to bite the bullet there, by not going into the wilderness we seemed like the fool for a month or two... but if we did I would bet some money that we would still be at odds today, and it doesn't turn out pretty when two solid alliances collide with some individuals wanting the other's actual destruction.

*************************************

Now as a parallel to this, I am going to say that both sides are probably right in ways, and the reason for this whole thing is probably confusion. I don't want other clans to end up in the same situation as our "adversary" (if I may call them that, they aren't really an enemy), for it could wreck their clans and ideals.

I will make my humble recommendation that both the Sith and the Jedi affirm their stances on peace, for both of their sakes. When honor starts to spiral into oblivion it is better to stand up earlier than later, and while I am not actually in the situation and can't speak for it, from a neutral standpoint it seems that it is not turning out all that well.

[Darkness]

I agree with the Jedi's view here, but I'm kind of confused. From what I've read, the Jedi's seem like SeeD, and Sith like TRR. Just my opinion.

.... Same here. All I am going to say in this post is probably something that has already been said. Yes, I read the whole topic, so I can tell what happened so don't go bugging me for not knowing what's going on. War will solve nothing! Peace will go a long way. I don't care which one of you decides, but at least one of you should. If this war is still going, I advise you not to attend. Honor does not matter. Would you die for honor? Probably not. Would you die for peace? Most likely, unless you are a twisted evil soul. If one of you don't attend, you won't be cowards. In fact, you will be more mature than the other, for knowing when to stop. I'll leave it at that, and only butt in again if I think I might be needed.

[Jedi Luke]

Just give it a rest. I dont need to lie about you, your reputation is worse than any lie I could possibly conceive. Only six days ago you barged in on our meeting and challenged us in an offensive and abrassive game of chicken. About nine days ago you tried to frame Jedi Cronocrimsoa and start a war between us and a more powerful clan. That is what set me off. You finally have your attention, and now you wish to be keepers of peace? Why shouldn't I be suspicious of your motives at SeeD? You've never demonstrated a single quality of ethic in the time I have known you. Now, you say I am against pace and the new order of runescape. I'd be more than happy to be a part of that order, if I wasn't entirley certain that this new order was total BS. If you have changed your mind in the past six days and somehow no one I've spoken to in your clan knows about it, then how should I know? And you say that the government is controllnig. If you think I'm playing the peices, you are quite far gone. I have actually lost qute a few elctions in my day, and am never guilty of voting for myself. The clan has great freedom and the cuncil sits in the same chairs and wears the same cloths and shares the same brotherhood as all the Jedi. The councilors are hardly a rulers at all, but rather a quick way to have amendments and additions made, as opposed to taking an entire clan poll. If the Jedi dissapprove, we act upon it. Otherwise our clan would collapse, as those who join are motivated by freedom. This time you do not even explain your transition from an evil tyrant who says things like "help your fellwo in need unless you really dont feel like it" to a pleasant a peaceful Bhuddist monk who seeks only an end to suffering.

Ok. If you want to do this again, I'll play along. I sign your treaty and will leave it to you to call off your war. I will not be your ally, only your tolerant coexsistant. I still anticipate that you will go back on your word, but you can consider the Jedi an ally of the treaty.

This post has been edited by Jedi Luke: 10 April 2005 - 04:59 AM

[Jedi Luke]

I just found the names of those I originally met in SeeD. X Zolon, Sk8boarder32, Gotenksjr3, and Masterstuff. Anybody know what ever happened to them?