[Neraphym]

First of all, attack my position, not me. I'll leave it at that because I'm above flamming you. Secondly, I'm not saying someone is an idiot for living there or that they should have to leave. I am simply saying it is a risk to live in such an area. Regardless of how New Orleans came to be, it is still under water, thus I am right to say it's not a place that is safe to live in. I am recommending they move, for their own safety, but if they have ties to the area, I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to stay.

[Kaezion]

First of all, attack my position, not me.  I'll leave it at that because I'm above flamming you.  Secondly, I'm not saying someone is an idiot for living there or that they should have to leave.  I am simply saying it is a risk to live in such an area.  Regardless of how New Orleans came to be, it is still under water, thus I am right to say it's not a place that is safe to live in.  I am recommending they move, for their own safety, but if they have ties to the area, I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to stay.

your position? my eyes must be deceiving me. you had just denounced the political debate that this topic had catalyzed, yet you yourself are treating this as if it's a debate. no, i was plainly flaming you because you dared to show everyone how incredibly uneducated you were when you decided you wanted to look smart and post something like 'New Orleans should be underwater' and that it shouldn't have existed in the first place, quoting something from a video game (a video game whose name is final fantasy) as your source of logic.
it's not the sadness of your lack of intelligence that merits my flaming. it's the audacity you display by explaining your "position" as if the people of New Orleans deserved to suffer a disaster. i get so enraged (and everyone else who has half a brain should be, too) every time i read that line you quoted... what was it again? "they wanted to defy the laws of nature?" you disgust me.

edit: and don't say that that's not the message you intended to convey, because you wouldn't have quoted it (and described it as "relating to New Orleans quite well") if it wasn't.

This post has been edited by Kaezion: 05 September 2005 - 10:06 PM

[SlainThrax-]

Hes right though... it shouldnt be there.. its just not smart to build a city below sea level when so close to the shore (would be another story if it were in say ohio)

P.S. you really need to stop the immature flaming in a debate. that in my opinion just "shows how uneducated you are"

[Kaezion]

yeah, you're right. sorry if i thought i was right in getting angry at someone who dismissed a tragedy as something that should have happened.

[Aaron]

I'm not in the mood for ranting/debating today, so never mind me . I support Bush and his executive actions in the wake of this disaster. I do feel that much of the aid is delayed too long though, many are dying in New Orleans because of this. Just bypass all the legislative formalities and send the aid in for God's sake!

[Neraphym]

First of all, this is not a dabate, we are just arguing over how I thought my words were to be interprited and how you misinterprited them. That is an arguement you cannot win, as they are my words. I NEVER said the people of New Orleans deserved what happened to them. To say that I said that is horrible. I'm simply saying that as nature would have it, the city would be in water. This is an undeniable fact, as it is in water now.

I used the videogame to illustrate a GENERALITY. If humans (no one in particular) are going to build a city ontop of bridges over water, at the base of a volcano, near a fault line, or in an area under sea level right next to the ocean, they are defying nature. I'm not saying you're stupid for doing that. They are aware of risks that come in doing so. I'd be willing to live in California, even though that state has earthquakes every so often. All I am saying is that when you defy nature, you run the risk of ending up screwed, just like the poor people in New Orleans.

Also, just because it is a videogame doesn't mean its automatically a bad thing. If there's one thing I really hate, its people who are prejudice. YOU ARE PREJUDICE. You discounted something just because it was in a videogame. Let me ask you this: if Metroid or Zelda said 2+2=4, would that make it wrong? NO!

Quit flamming me and stop trying to make me look like a bad person.

[Jake]

Everybody looks for a scape goat. Hey! There's our leader, President Bush. After all, he can stop powerful hurricanes by pointing his finger! Can't he?

but kerry would have passed a law that would make it illegal for the hurricant to hit and the hurricane would have dissappeared

also... the president isn't the only person in this country who could do anything... we have other political figures too.

and i wonder how much money moore has donated? or is the government hiding something and he wont help outta protest?

[vietpryde]

I just read Alpha's post and Kaez's reply to that post.

Kaezion I have no idea how you got whatever message you got.

you are without doubt one of the stupidest people ever to breathe.

That was just mean

can you even fathom the complete chain of events that led to New Orleans's birth as a city? no one can - not you, not me, and not the greatest historian on Earth. if you don't know the cause, then how can you denounce the effect?

Someone probably could tell you why/how New Orleans was built. I live in Canada so I don't know much about American history but if you could travel back in time and go to a library in New Orleans, you'll most likely find the history of New Orleans.

and so what if people lived in New Orleans? did they live there because they wanted to prove to the world that they could defy nature? no, they probably lived there because thats the only place they knew how to live in; they had their jobs there, family there, etc.

Eh he didn't really say it was their fault if they lived there or that they wanted to prove something etc. He just said you SHOULD move if you live in a similar place. He didn't criticize the people but simply giving advice.

The script may have said that but I don't think that's what Alpha was implying. Or maybe that's what he was implying but it was probably more directed towards the founders of New Orleans rather then the citizens.

who are you to say that they were living in a place that shouldn't have existed in the first place?

What's wrong with that? I would say it too It's just like saying nukes shouldn't have existed in the first place.

instead of quoting stupid lines from video games, you should take the time to think first.

You'd be surprised at how smart those Japanese people are Not just technology wise but logically too.

don't spew your hypocrisy about being a decent person when you're indirectly criticizing the citizens of New Orleans for living in such a city, many of them without a choice.

He didnt indirectly criticize the citizens. The founders maybe, but not the citizens.

your position? my eyes must be deceiving me. you had just denounced the political debate that this topic had catalyzed, yet you yourself are treating this as if it's a debate.

I'm pretty sure catalyzed is a word but would that work in that sentence? Catalyst would be the root word of catalyzed so how could something that increases the rate of reaction be related to a debate about politics...
Even if it isn't a debate, you don't have to flame

no, i was plainly flaming you because you dared to show everyone how incredibly uneducated you were when you decided you wanted to look smart and post something like 'New Orleans should be underwater' and that it shouldn't have existed in the first place, quoting something from a video game (a video game whose name is final fantasy) as your source of logic.

It's similar to you using the word catalyzed...
About the video game, meh I already covered that. And Alpha did a pretty good job of that too Actually he did a pretty good job of trying to "translate" what he said to you because honestly, you incredibly misinterpretated what he said.

yeah, you're right. sorry if i thought i was right in getting angry at someone who dismissed a tragedy as something that should have happened.

It should have. Well the New Orleans going underwater part, not that people dieing. That could have been prevented.


Alpha did a pretty good job of summing it up but I wanted to but my 2 cents in too

[Kaezion]

okay, maybe one of you can actually read what i post fully and then we'll see what kind of complaints you have.

let's see. that last line - "They just wanted to prove they could defy the laws of nature!" - can any of you honestly say those words contain any sympathy? some of you may think i'm immature or hotheaded, but none of you can say that those words don't contain criticism, as if the inhabitants of the sunken city in that video game deserved their fates. and by saying that the video game script (which this line is a part of) relates to the situation in New Orleans quite well, isn't Alpha Weapon implying the same criticism of the inhabitants of New Orleans?

and if that WASN'T the message Alpha Weapon was trying to get across, then why did he include that last line? it was a simple matter of excising one line off of a script. so why DID he include that line if he wasn't trying to criticize the people of New Orleans? maybe he saw some profound wisdom within that line, and wanted to share it with the rest of us? normally, i wouldn't blame him for it. it would actually be commendable, to share something like that. but what are we talking about here, a video game or a real city with real people who just got ravaged by a category 5 hurricane? so even if his intentions weren't damnable, the fact is that he slapped a wiseass one-liner containing criticism about people who "defy the laws of nature" onto an otherwise acceptable excerpt from a video game and said that it "relates to New Orleans quite well" - all at the expense of countless victims who suffered a major tragedy. no Alpha Weapon, i'm not trying to make you look bad, because you did that yourself.

maybe now you will see what i am angered about.

and vietpryde, if the only course you've taken in school was chemistry, i suggest you consult a dictionary before you criticize me for my choice of words.

This post has been edited by Kaezion: 06 September 2005 - 10:53 PM

[Baseballl]

Kaezion this is your last warning to stop with the insults and criticism in a debate. You have been warned twice before and more than that counting verbal warnings. A debate isn't the time to flame someone for Alpha was only expressing his opinion, which didn't cross onto anyone's turf, so to speak.

[vietpryde]

This is Alpha's quote from FFX.

I'll bold the parts which I think you overlooked.

Wakka: Hey. Take a look.

Tidus: What? (looking at the water) Whoa!

Tidus saw a sunken city.

Tidus: A sunken city!

Wakka: A machina city-a thousand years old! They built a city on top of
bridges across the river.

Lulu: But the weight of the city caused the bridges to collapse, and it
all sank to the bottom.

Wakka: Right. It's a good lesson.

Tidus: A lesson?

Wakka: Yeah. Why build a city over a river, ya?

Tidus: Uh... Well, it would be convenient, with all that water there.

Wakka: Nope, that's not why. They just wanted to prove they could defy
the laws of nature!

Now do you see where I'm getting at? He's not insulting the citizens, he's insulting the founders. I'm honestly incredibly happy that I live in Canada cause we don't have many natural disasters. Not to mention we have free health care (H).

and vietpryde, if the only course you've taken in school was chemistry, i suggest you consult a dictionary before you criticize me for my choice of words.

Honestly, don't try to insult me because that was a horrible attempt. It would've better to ask me if a) English was my second language or b) If I failed English. I don't know how other courses such as math, physics, religion, etc relate to the word catalyzed.
Sorry, people make mistakes k?

but what are we talking about here, a video game or a real city with real people who just got ravaged by a category 5 hurricane?

Are you serious? I thought Alpha was like 100% clear in his post.

Quote from Alpha:

I used the videogame to illustrate a GENERALITY. If humans (no one in particular) are going to build a city ontop of bridges over water, at the base of a volcano, near a fault line, or in an area under sea level right next to the ocean, they are defying nature.

If you still don't see where I'm getting at, if I'm not mistaken, which I do believe I'm not

THE ONLY PERSON/PEOPLE ALPHA COULD BE INSULTING IS THE PERSON/PEOPLE WHO MADE NEW ORLEANS THERE, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE!

[Kaezion]

Kaezion this is your last warning to stop with the insults and criticism in a debate. You have been warned twice before and more than that counting verbal warnings. A debate isn't the time to flame someone for Alpha was only expressing his opinion, which didn't cross onto anyone's turf, so to speak.

what do you mean by not crossing into anyone's turf? so wait, someone can post something like "it was only natural for the 9/11 attacks to happen" and get away with it? i'm asking you this not to prove a point or insult someone or anything, but i'm actually curious about what your answer is, because obviously i am missing some key point here.

and vietpryde, i'm sorry that i insulted you on a personal level. but you made a point of capitalizing on a potential mistake of mine, too.

[Neraphym]

what do you mean by not crossing into anyone's turf? so wait, someone can post something like "it was only natural for the 9/11 attacks to happen" and get away with it? i'm asking you this not to prove a point or insult someone or anything, but i'm actually curious about what your answer is, because obviously i am missing some key point here.

A hurricane didn't blow two planes into the world trade center, another into the pentagon, and a fourth into Sommerset County PA, WHERE I LIVE. There was no way in hell the founders of the New York, Washington DC, or William Penn had any idea that such things would or even could happen. The 9/11 attacks were acts of terrorism, the flooding of New Orleans was an act of poor city planning. The planners have been dead for over 200 years, so they can get out of their graves and insult me if they'd like to.



Edit: Here's the rest, not that it matters. I stopped there because it lost relevency.

Tidus talks to the driver.

Driver: Ride ze shoopuf?

Tidus: I'm ready! Let me on!

Driver: Al aboards!

Tidus' group got on the shoopuf.

Driver: Shoopuf launchin'!

The shoopuf is moving on to the north area.

Wakka: Hey. Take a look.

Tidus: What? (looking at the water) Whoa!

Tidus saw a sunken city.

Tidus: A sunken city!

Wakka: A machina city-a thousand years old! They built a city on top of
bridges across the river.

Lulu: But the weight of the city caused the bridges to collapse, and it
all sank to the bottom.

Wakka: Right. It's a good lesson.

Tidus: A lesson?

Wakka: Yeah. Why build a city over a river, ya?

Tidus: Uh... Well, it would be convenient, with all that water there.

Wakka: Nope, that's not why. They just wanted to prove they could defy
the laws of nature!

Tidus: Hmmm? I'm not sure about that.

Wakka: Yevon has taught us: When humans have power, they seek to use it.
If you don't stop them, they go too far, ya?

The screen switches to Tidus' group.

Tidus: Yeah, but don't you use machina, too? Like the stadium and stuff,
right?

Lulu: Yevon, it decides...which machina we may use, and which we may
not.

Tidus: So what kind of machina may we not use, then?

Wakka: Remember Operation Mi'ihen? That kind.

Lulu: Or war will rage again.

Tidus: War?

Yuna: More than a thousand years ago... Mankind waged war using machina
to kill!

Wakka: They kept building more and more powerful machina.

Lulu: They made weapons so powerful... It was thought they would destroy
the entire world.

Yuna: The people feared that Spira would be destroyed.

Wakka: But the war did not stop!

Tidus: Wh-What happened then?

Yuna: Sin came, and it destroyed the cities and their machina.

Lulu: The war ended...and our reward...was Sin.

Wakka: So, Sin's our punishment for lettin' things get out of hand, eh?

Tidus: Man, that's rough.

Wakka: Yeah, it is. But, it's not like the machina are bad.

Lulu: Only as bad as their users.

Wakka: It's because of people like the Al Bhed screwin' everything up!

[SlainThrax-]

i gota say it.... Kaezion i think your a little on the edgy side you need to calm down your not getting the picture we are trying to represent... alpha was NEVER insulting anyone... iv NEVER seen him insult someone in the time iv known him which is a lot more than you can say for me lol. anyway i think you just need to chill a bit.

[Cspace]

Since this is getting a bit heated I'm moving it to the debate forum. I will ask that the insults stop though, it's not worth breaking relationships with fellow clan members over simple wording and misinterpretations.