[Cspace]

Any merger is going to be difficult, as everyone is probably seeing right now. Both sides need to accept the merge itself, as well as accept the other clan and its members. With UFF having trouble to resolve with other clans (which appears to now mostly be in the past), a few SeeDs not accustomed to the situation and making baseless judgements, some UFF members not accepting SeeD, and a hint of reluctance to integrate the two clans together, these difficulties are obviously being felt. Regardless of all this, the merge is turning out better than I expected, thanks to those who are dedicated to make right what were previously fairly big problems.

"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens" - Gimli

I fully understand how difficult this is for UFF. For all from UFF who still remain after all we went through, your loyalty and dedication to your cause is very strong and should be recognized as such. It takes a solid foundation and a lot of dedication pull off what you did, and now things are starting to calm down a little. The storm is clearing and a hint of light is permeating through the darkness.

All of us from SeeD want to make this merge worthwhile for those from UFF. Right now there is some confusion though, as to what the identify of UFF remains. While UFF is now technically SeeD, we are at a point where your path can diverge into different directions. The actions made now by those from UFF will be likely to affect the longterm outcome of the merge, and will determine where your group identifies in the future.

*********************************************

What exactly is UFF now? A community? A PKing group? A little bit of everything? Does its associations transcend Runescape? What are its current goals? How can those goals be met? How should it integrate into SeeD to hopefully pull those goals closer? What is its place in SeeD?

After a bit of thought, I am thinking that maybe the best thing for UFF is to be given a Garden. While a Garden is inter-game in nature, within a Garden pretty much anything can be done short of breaking our basic guidelines (such as no cheating and whatnot). This would also give UFF a tangible place in SeeD to which it can identify. The only downside is that the Garden's name will need to be FFVIII-related in order to fit in with the rest, although I can visibly flag it as UFF. I would move this forum and turn it into a more permanent Garden forum. Basically everything that you're doing now can still be done, plus actual organization can exist (established by the Headmaster, who would probably be Dokimos) to give it the UFF flavor that I'm hearing is missed. I'm hearing about companies and other concepts that UFF once had and enjoyed, and to my knowledge all of these can be re-established in a Garden. Of course, even though a Garden is technically inter-game, it can focus on Runescape if its members desire.

A second option, although I feel it doesn't give UFF the openness it should have, is to somehow implement it as a mercenary group. A mercenary group (or team, party, etc.) focuses mainly on PKing and would have freedom with regards to that, but it wouldn't have the same level of freedom as it would with a Garden. A Garden would provide more visibility and freedom (and there isn't really anything a merc group can do that a Garden can't), although a merc group would be Runescape-specific in purpose.

... And perhaps other things can be worked out, although they would probably be more difficult than those two options to implement (for all involved). We feel that it would be best for SeeD if those originally from SeeD and those from UFF could integrate together. We can provide much more than this mere forum, and it just requires interaction. I personally feel that a Garden would be best for those from UFF as well as for SeeD as a whole, although I am open to suggestions.

Feedback is welcome from all SeeDs. If you have any opinions regarding UFF's place in SeeD, please reply. Hopefully we can accomodate something that will benefit everyone and make the merge a success.

[frisco sf]

Hi Cspace, well i thing the garden sounds kool but what else can a garden provide for UFF? Well thanks for your time.

I RATHER DIE A MAN THEN LIVE TO BE A COWARD

[Cspace]

Hi Cspace, well i thing the garden sounds kool but what else can a garden provide for UFF? Well thanks for your time.

I RATHER DIE A MAN THEN LIVE TO BE A COWARD

Gardens were originally established to help manage SeeD back when we didn't have the resources that we have today in order to manage leadership. They were divisions of SeeD that could lead themselves and provide a secondary member-defined hierarchy.

Today Gardens don't really have that purpose (since their previous purpose is now more effectively met by factions), but they are still sub-communities within SeeD. They can lead themselves within realistic limits and can even develop their own leadership system independent of SeeD as a whole. While Gardens are a direct part of SeeD (and all events should still be in the open as they are currently), they give members the ability to do other things with the clan that otherwise wouldn't be provided.

A Garden made for UFF (led by Dokimos) would therefore allow those from UFF to carry over their previous system to a certain extent, while identifying with SeeD and interacting more directly with all of our members. This would probably be the easiest way for UFF to fully merge, while still maintaining their system to a decent extent.

[branco man1]

hi cspace um im new and i need to find a clan! sorry if i didn't say nice to meet you

[Cspace]

hi cspace um im new and i need to find a clan! sorry if i didn't say nice to meet you

Well, you're on the website for SeeD (which is a clan), and you're free to join if you'd like.

[dokimos0rg]

For United Freedom Fighters to have a garden is OK with me. We would just need to have this easily found. I suppose "UFForia" would make a good name for it to match the conventions of SeeD.

UFForia is with the first three letters in caps. That would be short for "United Freedom Fighters Of Runescape In Action". Howbeit when spelled out and mentioned it should just be simply "United Freedom Fighters".

[Usb Machine]

I have it hard being able to merge. After several attempts I have tried to interact with SeeDs. I've found it very difficult. I have put forth the effort and have gotten almost nothing in return. Maybe im going about it the wrong way. I have gotten the impression of UFF being inferior to SeeDs even though we ourselves are SeeDs. I'm not saying creating a garden for us is a bad idea, because it may work. But, i have a feeling that a garden would disunify us from other SeeDs even more than now.

Another issue would be would there be any members in the UFF garden at all? The majority of the topics in our fourms are about war with other clans. Dokimos, Frisco,Stealth and I, as i see it, are the only true Freedom Fighters left. Even by several members who were once UFF compare UFF to the downfall of Rome.

I'm losing faith. I said that UFF would be my first clan, and it would be my last clan. Independancy seems more like a solution every day. I stay loyal to the UFF values and our cause and will forever fight against the war of overlords and "noobism" (as i like to call it). Maybe i just need to be enlightened again, but i question whether I myself can stay with SeeD. I joined UFF to meet new people, to help people make themselves better players, and to help myself become a better player. So, this is my plea for guidence. Hear me out, or i will have to make move. This is all im asking.

This post has been edited by Usb Machine: 15 December 2005 - 09:49 PM

[Cspace]

For United Freedom Fighters to have a garden is OK with me.  We would just need to have this easily found.  I suppose "UFForia" would make a good name for it to match the conventions of SeeD. 

UFForia is with the first three letters in caps.  That would be short for "United Freedom Fighters Of Runescape In Action".  Howbeit when spelled out and mentioned it should just be simply "United Freedom Fighters".

Unfortunately, as I think was mentioned the only real downside to a Garden is the name. Since a Garden is inter-game and non-exclusive, we've been keeping all of them with the FFVIII theme (which is where "Garden" is from in relation to SeeD btw). I could flag the Garden as being formed by UFF in a way that is visible, although the name itself would need to go along with the others so it doesn't appear falsely as isolated by those not from UFF. However, it can function on its own and can keep the UFF flavor that is currently missing (as far as I can see at least). This means that the same type of system can be established, with companies and whatnot.

With a mercenary group though, although it would be limited in what can be done, there would be no naming issue.

I have it hard being able to merge. After several attempts I have tried to interact with SeeDs. I've found it very difficult. I have put forth the effort and have gotten almost nothing in return. Maybe im going about it the wrong way.

Well, for all from UFF, I'd recommend that there be more posting in other forums. To those not from UFF this forum is often considered isolated, and those primarily posting here are appearing isolated as well because of it (which is part of the reason a Garden could help, among other things). While a few have been posting, the majority are mostly just hanging out in this forum, and it indirectly (though temporarily) changes the image of UFF from the outside. Funny as it is, many of those not from UFF have been coming to me saying how they would like to get to know those from UFF, but don't get the opportunity.

In the meantime, a few SeeDs have been showing a little displeasure with UFF due to a few reasons - mostly being confusion with the situations brought here, since from the outside perspective what is happening is just half of the story (and they're trying to fill things in where there are gaps), even though much more happened from your side than is visible on our forums. Even if they proclaim themselves as speaking for the majority, they're definitely not, and as they always say, those against an idea will be much louder than those for it.

I'd highly recommend the following to all from UFF:

- Posting in more forums than just the UFF forum.
- Coming to the chat when there are public invitations.
- Participating in events and contests.

- Perhaps even contacting some on MSN or AIM. On MSN at least, some of us have a habit of starting some rather.. entertaining chats (lol). Feel free to contact me anytime and maybe I can help those from UFF get to know the rest of SeeD. Here is a rather extensive list of screen names, and for reference, I am 'CspaceSupport@hotmail.com' on MSN and 'Cspace Support' on AIM.

If there is anything at all that you think we could be doing better to accomodate those from UFF, please let a mod or admin know.

[buckbeak14]

well i think the best thing would be to have a garden i think it would be
the most thing that can give us some of our older characteristics ....

[frisco sf]

Well srry to say, But UFF did fall but we were able to stand up only half way. So how do we get UFF strong again? As i still belive UFF still has something worth fighting for. We are still rebuilding but still something is blocking our way. We need to fix this so no more good, loyol members leave. Im willing to try to have a graden. If it doesn't work then its better then not doing anything at all. LONG LIVE UFF.

I RATHER DIE A MAN THEN LIVE TO BE A COWARD

[mathsciencegeek1]

Well srry to say, But UFF did fall but we were able to stand up only half way. So how do we get UFF strong again? As i still belive UFF still has something worth fighting for. We are still rebuilding but still something is blocking our way. We need to fix this so no more good, loyol members leave. Im willing to try to have a graden. If it doesn't work then its better then not doing anything at all. LONG LIVE UFF.

I RATHER DIE A MAN THEN LIVE TO BE A COWARD

i think that the lax structure of Uff is part of the problem for why you guys were failing.
there should be some collective pot for food and armor items rather than stores.
The clan would be more appealing and happier and stronger if the people in the clan also had a sense of comradery.
Otherwise the clan may go down the toilet

[Cspace]

I'm just *bumping* this because it is fairly relevant at the moment.

Please forgive me