Requesting Feedback Another checkpoint thread
#16
Posted 27 December 2005 - 03:51 AM
- What do you do the most when you come to the site?
Check forums, chat, talk, go WACKAY!
- In terms of SeeD, what is it in your opinion? What should be done differently? Do you have any desire to attend in-game events? If so, since SeeD is supposed to be directed by the members, do you have any desire to host or assist in hosting events? Do you think events should be handled otherwise?
I'm really not into runescape at all. But I do think that the shop should be more open. Player shops, more stuff, item creation...that stuff.
- How do you define a guild (clan)?
People who...are...together?
- Is there any separation between CurvedSpace and SeeD? While there will likely be more conceptual division in the future in terms of services, is there anything at the moment that you consider CurvedSpace as opposed to SeeD?
SeeD is ingame, CurvedSpace is in the forums.
- Do you think there is enough interaction between new members and old members? Between those who have directly joined SeeD and those who came to SeeD through UFF's merge? Between the moderators and the community? Between the admins and the community? Between SeeD and other communities? Between our members and the search engine bots?
I personally think the merger has not done too well. Almost all the UFFers quit, and some of them are just trolls/flamers.
- Are there any particular new features that you think would benefit the site?
More damn shop stuff!
- What goals should SeeD pursue?
More.
Shop.
Stuff.
Could I be any clearer?
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Shake (On TV): I'm in your house.
Shake:...
Meatwad:...
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#17
Posted 27 December 2005 - 03:52 AM
I post
- In terms of SeeD, what is it in your opinion? What should be done differently? Do you have any desire to attend in-game events? If so, since SeeD is supposed to be directed by the members, do you have any desire to host or assist in hosting events? Do you think events should be handled otherwise?
I believe SeeD is a wonderful online community that appeals to a wide range of people. Almost all of us play some game or another or have, for most that is RuneScape. I see new factions popping up often, such as Knights of Arcturus, which I am trying to become an asset in. It is mainly a place of friends though, as the atmosphere is generally friendly and eventually a member can get to know more than half the members who are active. I do have a desire to attend in-game events, but often I am not able to. Not all events I wish to attend though, mostly because of personal preference. Since my life can be busy, I try not to host an event because of the fear of me not being able to keep the event on. I believe there should be an "event master" for each faction that organizes events for their respective groups. This may help a bit.
- How do you define a guild (clan)?
A clan is a group of people that actively plays a game or a few games. The most games a clan is involved in, the less "tight" the bond is (I know this from experience). I do not define SeeD in general as a clan, but as a community.
- Is there any separation between CurvedSpace and SeeD? While there will likely be more conceptual division in the future in terms of services, is there anything at the moment that you consider CurvedSpace as opposed to SeeD?
The only thing I can think of that could be considered CurvedSpace by me is the Game Room, Geek Farm and other related forums. Otherwise, I would consider most of the boards "SeeD."
- Do you think there is enough interaction between new members and old members? Between those who have directly joined SeeD and those who came to SeeD through UFF's merge? Between the moderators and the community? Between the admins and the community? Between SeeD and other communities? Between our members and the search engine bots?
I don't believe that old and new members interact enough. I think it takes a while for the older members to accept and receive the newer ones. But when time and activity are added in, the newer members become accepted, liked, and known. The best examples of which that I can think of are myself, Charlie4u2, and Nuu. UFF members seem to keep to themselves, but some try to become involved in the resident SeeD members' discussions. The best example of which would be StealthX1. The moderators are as much a part of the community as any active member. None take their position to their head. The admins are also comparable to the way I described the moderators. Most view the "great king
- Are there any particular new features that you think would benefit the site?
The most beneficial feature that has been introduced is the SeeD Shop. I think it has brought significantly more activity to the forum, and the "scandulous" activities that have gone on because of it are outweighed by the benefits. I cannot think of anything right now, but I'm sure others have great ideas
- What goals should SeeD pursue?
SeeD should strive to be a better and wider community. The factions need to become more active and stronger. If this happens, the whole community can become a strong multi-game clan.
#18
Posted 27 December 2005 - 02:22 PM
Usually just browse the forums and post, pretty simple..I'll head into the chat also when I have time.
SeeD is right now a community. Just a community. What I mean by that is that we aren't directly involved in any game at the moment from my honest view. So right now if we want to recruit members, we advertise a well-developed community/forums to hang around in.
And you know me, I love events.
An organization devoted to something in which others that are involved with that thing can join the guild/clan and do whatever.
Hmm, I've always thought of releases from the site as CurvedSpace, such as the arcade, blog, shoutbox, etc.. SeeD is the forums, the clan, the members, you know.
-'New-and-Old': I believe so, I know there are some groups of strong friendships in SeeD, although I see older members interacting with new ones as well. I think we might lack an effort to get to know new members, I think the chat should be more active since you get direct messenging with other SeeDs.
-'SeeDs-and-UFF': UFF seems to be excluding itself from SeeD in their forum except for a few members that actually look in the other forums and post. So many of them just want to be in the UFF, so it doesn't look like the merge was unanimous in UFF's part..
-'Mods-and-Community': Yep, although I think all mods should watch where they draw the line. If as a mod you work up some perception in which certain things aren't allowed for other members to do, but are okay for you, then you're going down a wrong road. A mod's job in SeeD is to guide other members, maintain the forums, and that's it. There shouldn't be a line diving those with 'power' and those without. Everyone should just treat each other equally and make good decisions as mods and members.
-'Admins-and-Community': All of our current admins seem to be very busy nowadays. I haven't seen MoS for a while, Star posts occasionally when she can, and d' Cspace of course has his schedule to deal with along with maintaining the 'empire'.
'SeeD-and-Other Com.': Honestly, just plain none. During the times I've randomly browsed other forums for games and such, none know of SeeD. I doubt they would since we're not directly involved with a game as I said earlier. We're just a community at the moment, but that doesn't list us under anywhere in other forums.
-Us-and-Search Engine Bots': Um, yeah, you're da Google Master Cspace.
More involved in other games, maybe get some actual info on that on our site in plain view. A more developed news page would be fun maybe, I don't have any specifics on that idea though.
Again, I believe our current goal should be moving in other games. Step-by-step plan:
-Start off with a bunch of forum-type events in SeeD. it'll help gather everyone, make members think 'hey, there's something going on here, so I'll check back whenever I can'.
-Then we choose a game. One-at-a-time should definitely work better since we can all concentrate our focus at the same thing. We choose a game we have the most SeeDs active in, then set up something physically visible, so that we have a definite base in that game. Then we recruit from in that game, so that we'll have active members to help uphold that faction.
-Then we just keep moving into other games one at a time, recruiting from those games so that we get steady flows from different areas. The overall ultimate goal would be a time where many knew that if they joined a game and want to join a clan to make that game more fun or to get help, they could go to SeeD. It would allow gamers to play more than one game without the worries of checking on 2+ clans.
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Phew... *flex fingers and goes to sleep*

"Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."
--K
#19
Posted 27 December 2005 - 10:52 PM
When I come to the site I first check out the Mod Discussion to see if anything is going on in the clan involving members or conflicts. Then I check the major forums such as the GD and Chatting Zone. After that I go into the Lobby and try to welcome some new members. As for what I do the most, I'm pretty much only involved with chatting. Sometimes I might play an arcade game, but mainly I only post or chat with a SeeD on Aim. When nothing is happening here I just minimize the screen and check my email or balance my check book and then check back in later.
- In terms of SeeD, what is it in your opinion? What should be done differently? Do you have any desire to attend in-game events? If so, since SeeD is supposed to be directed by the members, do you have any desire to host or assist in hosting events? Do you think events should be handled otherwise?
My opinion regarding SeeD is that it is moving from a gaming community into just a regular community. I personally don't think SeeD itself will last much longer due to the fact that you can't get a majority to enjoy one or even a few games to bring back the gaming aspect. I see SeeD furthering its blend with CurvedSpace and becoming more of an "everything" community like it is now. At this point in time the factions between groups of friends are growing and it conflicts with the mood and the ability to host events, which I'll touch on below. I personally think events need to be more forum based to produce an outcome.
- How do you define a guild (clan)?
I define it as a group of people, I won't even say friends, that somehow collected into a group.
- Is there any separation between CurvedSpace and SeeD? While there will likely be more conceptual division in the future in terms of services, is there anything at the moment that you consider CurvedSpace as opposed to SeeD?
I won't say much here other than that I believe they are becoming one since SeeD (Runescape-based) is fading and the CurvedSpace aspect of the community is taking over.
- Do you think there is enough interaction between new members and old members? Between those who have directly joined SeeD and those who came to SeeD through UFF's merge? Between the moderators and the community? Between the admins and the community? Between SeeD and other communities? Between our members and the search engine bots?
I think the interaction between new and old isn't good at all. Personally, I only interact with mainly new members for certain reasons which I won't mention. Like I said above, factions between friends are hurting the community and thats all I will say. Too many times the older members are feeling elite and the newer members aren't being accepted because they post in the wrong forum or don't have perfect spelling. Its happening all the time.
As for the UFF, I don't think it was a smart idea now that it has happened. It wasn't thought over, from my opinion, and it just isn't working. The members of UFF for the most part don't want to be in SeeD and the SeeDs see UFF as being lower than us. Also, they aren't taking part in the community and becoming known which hurts our impression on them.
The relationship between the mods and community also isn't good from my viewpoint. The friendships are fine, but its the trouble makers who upset the mods. It has happened many times in the past where the person causing trouble gets stopped by the mod and the mod then gets criticised and blamed to cover up what that person did wrong. Not only is it immature, but its very irritating and it isn't taken care of. This brings me to the next point. I don't feel that the current Community Admins are doing their job in the way that it needs to be done. We need active admins that are part of the community, not those who seem to never be around and can never be reached. We need admins that aren't always a person who posts all the time, but someone who is atleast here every day and is active in terms of being able to handle a situation as it rises. One thing that hinders this clan is the lack of response quickly to a situation and because of that the situation explodes into something large because it doesn't get taken care of. I feel this is SeeD's weakest part and I feel it needs to be handled now. The members want an Admin team who are active and can be there when needed and I feel this could and should happen.
Finally, SeeD has next to no relations with other communities and I don't think it is really needed anyway because we aren't associated in any game anymore and we probably shouldn't be.
- Are there any particular new features that you think would benefit the site?
No physical features, just a more active Admin Team.
- What goals should SeeD pursue?
I think before we set and pursue goals we need to first come to terms with ourselves. Lets first realize that we aren't that active in Runescape anymore and that we don't have many members like we did before. Lets start promoting what we have and not what we had/want to have. When we advertise, lets promote the average amount of members on the forum in any given day, not that in the past 4-5 years we have accumulated three thousand registrations. This could even be a goal. Lets make it a goal to realize and promote what we have. Then lets make goals to go from there. Lets make recruitment goals and try to get people to follow through with them.
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With that said, I think SeeD/CurvedSpace will strive when we get an active Admin team and we promote the truth about our members, not our registrations. We will rid ourselves of conflicts if we have an active Admin to handle any requests a mod may have when the situation pops up and we will be able to put aside the "inactivity" complaints.
This post has been edited by Bballmastr1: 28 December 2005 - 12:02 AM
#20
Posted 27 December 2005 - 11:32 PM
Browse forums, sometimes check blogs and shoutbox, and once in a while write in my blog/do a shout. Also, when I'm not playing WoW and I'm really bored, I might go on chat, but no one's really there.
- In terms of SeeD, what is it in your opinion? What should be done differently? Do you have any desire to attend in-game events? If so, since SeeD is supposed to be directed by the members, do you have any desire to host or assist in hosting events? Do you think events should be handled otherwise?
SeeD is a nice little place where you can waste some time discussing everything and nothing. I would love some events in WoW, but with the large number of different servers, not to mention seperation between US and EU servers, I don't see it as a possibility at all. And since that's the only game I play except WC3 TFT DotA, I can't attend any other events.
- How do you define a guild (clan)?
A group of people who play a game together.
- Is there any separation between CurvedSpace and SeeD? While there will likely be more conceptual division in the future in terms of services, is there anything at the moment that you consider CurvedSpace as opposed to SeeD?
SeeD, CurvedSpace. Same thing.
- Do you think there is enough interaction between new members and old members? Between those who have directly joined SeeD and those who came to SeeD through UFF's merge? Between the moderators and the community? Between the admins and the community? Between SeeD and other communities? Between our members and the search engine bots?
New members and old members? Plenty.
SeeD and UFF? None. As other people have mentioned, most people from UFF quit since they were not aware they were merging and thus had no wish to do so.
Community and moderators? Uh yeah, I see lots of interaction, seeing as a good chunk of the community are mods.
Other communities? None.
- Are there any particular new features that you think would benefit the site?
None I can think of.
- What goals should SeeD pursue?
I don't really care, I like it this way.
#21
Posted 28 December 2005 - 12:12 AM
However, our reasons for that expansion are proving to be well founded. There is almost always at least one SMod on at any given time, and almost every time something obviously wrong appears it is often handled within a matter of minutes unless in a secluded forum. There is no way a three-member admin team can beat that kind of response regardless of how active they are.
I won't speak for others, but at least relating to me, I am on the site every single day unless something abnormal happens in real life. I physically schedule it into my day because of the chance that something goes wrong with the server, and when I determine that it's fine, I always at least check around the forums (the extent of which depends on how much time I have). Whenever I can multitask I sign onto MSN, and if I am on for the purpose of support I'll also sign onto AIM.
Also, this is a member-led clan and community. The members lead events, discussions, and basically everything else within realistic bounds. I purposely stay in the background unless necessary (or unless there's something I feel would be harmless to contribute). I tend to stay out of a lot of clan-related threads unless there's a reason for me to contribute, which is because I do not wish to micromanage SeeD where it is not necessary. Perhaps this is why I'm more commonly active, from the member's standpoint, in science threads and other unrelated topics than clan topics. By no means am I ignoring them, I'm just letting the clan direct itself.
As for Star, it is winter break, and I know for a fact that circumstances relating to it are keeping her from her computer. I wouldn't expect her to return until the break is over. To my knowledge MoS is having other computer issues that are limiting him from being on as often as he otherwise could, however to my knowledge he is still active in RS. Rylkan is not an admin for community-related reasons and shouldn't be held to the same guidelines.
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Anyway, I guess I went overboard. What should be the focus of the admin team? What should be the focus of the smod team? What should be the focus of the mod team? How can each contribute to the community the most in a way in which the three teams would work together?
As it is now, in my basic opinion, the focus of the admins should be constructive, the focus of the smods should be preservation, the focus of the mods should be interest, and the focus of the rest of the members should be direction.
That's just the way I look at this, each group shouldn't be held to the same standards because they should each focus on different aspects of the community.
#22
Posted 28 December 2005 - 12:18 AM
Smods can't even handle anything now without being insulted for it, mainly by the sarcastic members only there to fuel the fire. The Community Admins need to be there to offer a decision when this happens and not let the situation escalate.
#23
Posted 28 December 2005 - 12:45 AM
All in all I agree with Bball, we're not trying to go against any opinions or the structure, but that's simply a problem we've been seeing for a while, and you asked about it so I dunno if you noticed too.
Aye, that's sounds good.

"Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."
--K
#24
Posted 28 December 2005 - 01:00 AM
Realistically speaking not much is wrong with SeeD in terms of conflicts. There are a few arguments here and there, a few members causing minor problems localized in a few scattered threads (all but a couple of those threads are dead), but it is nothing unless one focuses only on what's wrong. Compared to other communities we are very well off and shouldn't strive for absolute perfection when it comes to members' behavior. I try to judge the healthy limit for the community, and if things are great in many ways, this allows for increased freedom and I back out of the picture. When things really start to go wrong, then we can tighten up for whatever extent is necessary.
The SMods have a responsibility not to blow up problems that, from the scope of the whole community, are actually minor. "Preservation" does pertain to rules, but it also pertains to the atmosphere. The atmosphere should never be unnecessarily sacrificed when a problem can be solved locally, because it almost always just involves one or two members. By the time it's over, the SMod's goal is for it to end with just those who were initially involved. If the entire community is pulled into something that shouldn't concern them, the team failed. This includes sacrificing the freedom of everyone over the mishap of one. It also includes the piling of minor arguments into one entity that makes major what really is normal.
That's my logic.
I really don't know what happened recently that would be considered a "large conflict" on which to base this. When possible I've been in constant contact with the (s)mods and admins regarding the merge, arguments, and other things (mostly via MSN). By no means are we ignoring potential problems, but in the process of localizing conflicts, we tend to attempt to either limit conflicts to single threads or take them to a medium off of the site. To one who isn't involved, it would seem that nothing is being done, but believe me when I say that we are very aware of the state of the forums.
(And to tell the truth, on a mostly unrelated note, a community admin is reading this thread anonymously at this moment, who I did not prompt to come onto the site.)
MoS has been having computer issues and Star is pulled away from the site due to reasons relating to winter break. Prior to the break I've seen Star on a ton and have discussed a number of situations with her, and she has been on the site quite a bit. MoS' activity is on and off for reasons not relating to the site, and once solved should no longer be an issue.
I fully understand how we could be viewed as inactive, but we are truly on the site a lot and spend a lot of time off the site discussing issues and plans for improvement and other website-related things independent of the forums. Some may notice how both of the admins' posting decreased after becoming admins, and it is because a ton happens that is not directly on the forums that needs to be handled. The position also forces us to lurk more than post, but if one checks the list of users active that day, every single day you'll see admins down there unless there is some major fluke. We aren't just signing on for kicks.
#25
Posted 28 December 2005 - 01:16 AM
I like the structure of SeeD now, but your questions struck some thoughts in my head since they connect with recent problems we've had. You mentioned that we shouldn't be involving a lot of people in conflicts, but with so many SMods there's likely to be at least a couple noticing the situation and getting involved. Those two sort of contradict, maybe you can explain further so I understand what you're saying better.

"Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."
--K
#26
Posted 28 December 2005 - 01:53 AM
Yeah, that's one of our goals. However, with PMs, conducting the (s)mod team, monitoring the forums, handling requests, handling support, promotion, webmastering/server maintenance, security, and other things, we have a lot to worry about. It's a little difficult to explain to everyone since not everyone has experienced or witnessed anything of this sort, but there is some friction at the moment between the general mod team and the admins. Some of the mod team has been idealistically fighting the admins, not exactly in a negative way, but in a way that pressures the admins to get into things that shouldn't be their focus. As a result, the moderators in general don't feel capable of doing their job, the members don't trust the moderators, and the admins are stretched thin between all of the groups, having to attempt to fulfill everyone's responsibilities.
Having to emulate all of the member groups makes us seem scattered. Many knives, none sharp, some may say. With one admin away frequently due to computer issues and another away for the break and exams and whatnot, things get even more stretched, although temporarily.
Once the moderators realize that they are intended to be capable of handling situations independently, not relying on the admins unless something serious or unusual comes up, then we will be able to focus more. If something is not serious and is being handled in the wrong manner, then the admins may intervene, but if not the SMods should be capable of handling their aspect of the forums, leaving the other groups to handling theirs'.
#27
Posted 28 December 2005 - 02:11 AM
Meh, I dunno, I'm in a bad mood right now from somethin' else so I'll stop there.

"Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."
--K
#28
Posted 28 December 2005 - 03:12 AM
Perhaps it would better revolve around where admins should be active, and how the mods and smods can benefit the community. I agree that the admins should be a more direct part of the community itself and not as much in the background, but first the mod situation needs to be fixed, because until it is the admins will continue to be forced to fill in for them among everything else, making them less efficient with regards to any specific area of the site.
I plan to force myself not to reply to this thread for a week, but I guess I felt the need to get a word in there.
#29
Posted 28 December 2005 - 04:53 AM
#30
Posted 28 December 2005 - 07:58 AM
If these were way out in the open, and we each focused on one area, that makes things unstable. If a member needs help in-game, for example, he/she would rely on one admin. If a lot is happening in that area the admin could easily be swamped with requests. On the other side, if the admin is not able to maintain a decent amount of activity for a time, members would be incapable of getting in contact with the right person. If our administration was full-time that would work, but we have lives too, and we therefore cannot specialize too much or it would become a burden for everyone.
Among us we focus on specific areas, but we keep it to ourselves to prevent single-admin reliance from the members. This way we can also cover for each other when one cannot be active, and without explicit specialization there would be no flak from the members.
If a member wishes to contact an admin, the easiest way is through a messenger. I'm on MSN almost every day, Star is on both MSN and AIM frequently, and MoS was frequently on AIM before he had difficulties with his computer and other work. If a member wishes to receive a quick response via PM, though, he/she is advised to contact the lowest possible level who can help them. The truth is that we receive hundreds of PMs and regardless of how they're distributed they are still a burden. Many of these PMs involve moderation and other requests that can be handled by others. If the members wish for our response time to be better for PMs, it is advised to only go to the admins when administrative assistance is needed, unless a swift response is not necessary.
Are those necessarily what an admin should focus on? Conflicts and "anything that may pop up", unless major, should be completely manageable by the SMods. That's why we have a decent sized team where at least one is on at any given time. The news is in the domain of all SMods and up, but I will say that it is an area the admins should focus on. However, with our focus being pulled to the role of the SMod, among the actual administrative responsibilities the news is becoming less of a priority. We try to let the mod team run itself unless there is a real problem, since we consider the mods "members" as well, and as such a part of the "member-led" ideal of SeeD. However overseeing it should be a role of the admins. The site I try to focus on, but when pulled to situations and other problems, updates literally get delayed. DStorm, content updates, possible forum modifications, and other plans get pushed back as eventful things require attention.
I think there is a bit of confusion, for while we plan to focus on actually administrative tasks, the members continually think of the admins as "SMods who can edit the forums". As such, the SMods feel that they need to follow our lead, when in fact they were chosen to handle moderation on their own while being overseen by the admins. This way we can do what we need to do, the SMods can do what they need to do, and everyone's needs are actually met.
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