QUOTE(dokimos0rg @ Feb 17 2006, 03:53 PM)
No it doesn't make me an idiot, it only shows your ignorance of what you either can't or won't understand. My purpose is not to insult you, Googlebot, but to help you see reason on a subject you apparently do not like to think differently about. But I commend you for your open mind to discuss in this topic.
Well, it sure
looks like your purpose is to insult him. Remember, as Googlebot says a bit later, there are no tones of voice, no hints of sarcasm, nothing. This is the INTERNET. If you say something bad about someone, they can assume two things. That you are trying to insult them and make them look bad, or you are just joking around. The latter usually only comes about if you know the person who insulted you enough to know that they are most likely joking. The former is the most often seen. Suffice it to say, you haven't been around in SeeD enough for SeeD members (the older ones, not the newer ones from UFF, who are still SeeDs) to know if you are joking or not.
Besides, throwing insults back and forth, even if in a joking manner, is never needed to "change someone's view", or to "win a fight", or whatever you think you are accomplishing by insulting people.
QUOTE
You are not alone as a player who has been shaped and molded by Runescape societal thinking. We in UFF view players like this as slaves or slavemasters to this corrupt system. These we seek to set free. We are the United Freedom Fighters of Runescape.
Well,
that's a laugh. Yes, a laugh. There's an emote to express that.

Yes. That's it. Anyways, back to the point. No offence, but that one really made you look like an idiot

The reason why? Well, for example, I played Runescape for only about a year. During that time, the only clan I ever joined was SeeD. I applied for one other, called the 'Red Capes', who only admitted level 50+s. At the time, I was... I think... Level 45. Anyways, I sent in a registration form anyways, and within an hour I got an email back telling me that, sorry, but I was not accepted due to my low level. This planted within me a certain form of prejudice against level requirement clans.
Now, if I didn't like them in the first place, and I've only been in SeeD in my whole time playing Runescape, which was the year after I joined SeeD, and have been in SeeD for two years since, how exactly am I so against the thought that they should all be disbanded? Simple. I already know, and knew three years ago when I applied for the Red Capes, that on Runescape, people are free to do as they wish, within the rules of course. If someone wants to have a clan where they get experienced players, players, as Mike said, that know what they are doing and won't get in the way, they are allowed to do that. Even if they are 'snuffy little clubs'. Most aren't. So stop saying they are. Stop insulting them, since it only makes you
look like an idiot. Again, you can't win a fight with insults

The only thing you can do with insults is make a situation worse.
QUOTE
As I've said elsewhere, having wilderness teams of selective friends is fine. But when it comes to clanning it is different. Expressing contempt for others simply because they don't meet some clan requirements is what we object to.
You're right not all high levels are snobs in Runescape. We have had level 90s in UFF.
But many do express attitudes of condemnation on lower level players. If that is the way they want to be about it, we have the right to respond the way we do.
Who said they "express contempt" just because they don't meet clan requirements? Most don't anyways. Again, as Mike said, some are they way anyway. Some may be
born that way. Some may have been turned that way just because of being high level. But most aren't. So, how exactly, are you planning on changing people's personalities? By winning a fight in the wilderness in a game? By throwing insults at your opposition? That won't help at all. In fact, winning a fight/insulting someone
in real life wouldn't do much to change their personality either. So how do you expect to do it
over the internet? What charade are you attempting to pull saying you can change someone's personality, when even their parents, friends, spouses, teachers, and other people you have more influence over them than you, and they know in real life, might be failing at it?
Also, as even you said, you have the right to respond the way you do to people who want level requirements. Just as you have that right, they too have the right to have level requirements in the first way. They have the right to fight back. They aren't going to just lay down their swords before you without a fight, and even if they did, and you won a wilderness fight in some way, that isn't going to disband their clan! An internet fight will do nothing to destroy the clan that has level requirements! They'll just appear back in Lumbridge, and since they are high levels,
because of those level requirements, your victory probably won't have dealt them a fatal blow, or even a wounding blow. They probably still have enough wealth to go buy back what they lost!
And back to my ramble about the Red Capes, what did they say when I got rejected? Did they laugh in my face since I was too low level to join? No. Did they stick hidden insults in their words? No. Did they degrade me in any way because I was a low level? No. They said that they were sorry that I couldn't join because of my level, and encouraged me to attempt to get those last five levels so I could be accepted. Yeah, that's really an "exp
ression of contempt", and "attitudes of condemnation". >.>
QUOTE
Again, none of this makes me "an idiot", Googlebot This is a different viewpoint from yours, but a valid one. We do not have to submit to the attitudes resulting from the corrupt common system of Runescape clanning. In fact, resistance to such crap attitudes with fair response has been long over due.
A reformation in clanning values is in order. UFF is an expression of this. We built from an entirely new foundation for a model of clanning.
So are you saying that you were the first clan to be without level requirements? I hope not, because you definitely weren't "built from an entirely new foundation for a model of clanning". Several clans were already around that accepted all. SeeD for example.
Nobody said you had to submit to those attitudes. You don't have to affiliate yourself with those "snobby little clubs" in any way. Just don't talk to them. Don't interact with them. Don't make yourself look like an idiot. Several of those clans will just die out since they don't have enough members anyways, since they don't have a strong enough leader (not in levels). So let them be. The ones that don't die out from inactivity are the ones who wouldn't be dealt a blow if you beat them in the wilderness, so save yourself the trouble and let those ones that you can some how beat from a wilderness fight die out from inactivity on their own, and let the others continue on the way they want to play the game.
QUOTE(dokimos0rg @ Feb 19 2006, 04:06 PM)
OK then, you think it is about me "looking" like an idiot for UFF's estimation of restricive clans as appearing gay (exclusive). Well, they are gay (exclusive).
What I think or what they think or what you think doesn't change what they do and are. They ARE what they DO. Neither my opinion nor what others think of it changes anything. I state the facts only.
Again, they aren't gay. That makes you look like an idiot. No matter what you think. And again, you can't win a fight by insulting people. That's like.... Flaming. Where has flaming ever gotten people? Banned. Suspended. So yeah... You won't get punished since you aren't insulting a direct member of this clan, but it's the same concept. Insulting is gai.

QUOTE
What UFFs say only appears foolish to the blind and ignorant. They are slaves blinded by their own system, blinding others and blinding themselves.
But for us, though, our clanning values are what lead to Runescape freedom!
We reject the system of overlording and despise the placing restrictive rules on others. We will continue in this same struggle for the freedom of Runescape.
... Again, people aren't slaves! You can't enslave people through the internet anyways. Some people just have similar views as other people. That means that someone is enslaved, just because they think similarly? Nobody is blinding any one else. Am I blind, just because I don't think the same as you? That's what is sounds like. Sounds like Hitler. You're just saying that anyone who thinks differently than you is wrong, and thus they need to either start thinking the same as you or you'll punish them. Even if Hitler did that to the tenth power squared, it's the same principle. You're trying to partially take away people's freedom of choice.
You may be saying that you are going to give Runescape its freedom.. I've got news for you. Too late. It's already free. As long as people are allowed to do what they want, whether it be organize a clan with requirements or not, it will be free. I'm not some dude who writes big sermons, I don't have some dream for people to follow, but at least I understand what is, instead of blinding myself against others' points of views with some psychotic dream to eliminate any people who want experienced players, no matter how elitist they are.