[Res]

Ok, Dokimos. This is going to be a post directed at you. Not in an attacking matter, however.

You should know I don't hate the UFF. I don't even dislike it. What I DO dislike are some of the values you have. I want this post to be directly between you and me. Nobody else post here. I'd do this through the PM system, but I want these answers made public.

And I want no rally from you to get your underlings in a hyped up mood. I want a civil discussion with you. Only.

(Srsly, nobody else post for Dokimos0rg. I want answers directly from him.)

Now then, you may answer these questions in any order you like, but give me answers. Also, don't twist my words around and accuse me of being one of you.

1: You really have a hypocritical stance on this whole thing. If the UFF have the value to "Be free and be yourself", why do you care as much as you do on lowering the requirements of clans who CHOOSE to set the reqs?

2: Why do you accuse members of req clans to be "Slaves/ oppressed/ used/ etc."? These players willfully set their own goals so they can be a part of a PKing clan. If the clan they joined didn't appeal to them, they can leave. Simple as that. THAT is what ruins clans. Not requirements.

3: True, some members of these clans can be elitist asses, but you're making far too wide of a general sweep. Is it just something you do to assume EVERYONE in a req clan is an elitist punk? Why?

4: Not a question. Stop using the term "Gay clubs". Just stop. It demeans them, it demeans you, it demeans gays.

5: Tell me. Personally, what started your vendetta against req clans?

6: In response to the fact that people who join req clans are there by their OWN FREE WILL AND CHOICE, how would you go about getting them to quit a clan they've worked so hard for? On top of that, overthrow their leader?

7: You're aware if you manage to get members from other clans to join yours, than the title "UFF" (United Freedom Fighters)? Becomes something more along the lines of UDF. Because forcing others out of clans would be a Dictatorship.
-------------------
These are just a few. I'll wait until you post directly to these questions. I'll not be satisfied until they are answered.

And as I said before, Dokimos0rg reply only.

Thanks.

[Res]

Bump. Please.

[Star Jedi]

I also have one question to ask.. I asked it in another topic, and it's totally up to you on whether to answer it or not, but I would like to know..

You said this in another topic, Doki:

It is wrong to impose clan rules on the entire wildy and on other clanmembers to control them. That is what Anti-PK Clans do. A sore evil it is.

I am not trying to be mean or anything on this, but I can't say I'm not confused myself Anti-PK fight for the little guys, as in they are protectors of the miners and such that go into the wilderness with no intent to kill anyone.. I don't see how this is bad, but a respectful thing to be.

I'm saying this because I am an Anti-RPKer myself =\

They fight for a cause like UFF does, and I see no wrong in that. They can only help the innocent people of the wilderness, really..

It's not against the rules for an Anti-RPKer to attack those with skulls, for those are PKers... But attacking those without skulls that look like they are no threat and aren't is just silly, and you don't get much of anything either.

I'd just like to know your whole thoughts on the issue, I'm in no way trying to bring you down. But I can't say I am not interested =s

If I have misinterpretted what you have said, please tell me, because I do that..a lot

(Sorry Mikey)

[dokimos0rg]

Vasshu Za Sutanpiido,

1: Other clans are free to make themselves what they want but that does not mean they make freedom for others by their restrictive rules which they enforse on others, control others with, impose on others, raise the bar on others or cut them off from their clan, etc.

Runescape clans with restrictive rules have generally insulted all others who don't qualify for their clans. If they haven't done this yet, they will as soon as pride swells up in them.


2: They are manipulated in a system of heirarchal or overlording control with tactics similar to controlling religious cults.

3: UFF does not assume upon the attitudes of other clans. Some are more open minded to discuss, others are obstinate and abusive. Each clan should be understood individually.

4: I imagine it may put down homosexuals to liken them unto restrictive clans or vice-versa but my actual use of the term "gay" was to indicate and emphasize their exclusiveness. I am not going into another long discourse and debate over the definition of the word "gay" again in this forum. If anyone has questions, let them look up old posts. Sorry you don't like the term but I am entitled to make an emphatic point this way.

5: Exclusive clans break up friendships by their controlling attitudes. They insult others. Their elitist and prideful attitude they enjoy only comes at the expense of degrading others. It has given a bad reputation to Runescape as a whole. They do not realize or they forget or they wish to be ignorant of what damage such attitudes do to others who wish to enjoy the game of Runescape.

6: There are various methods UFF employs for the freedom of Runescape. The whole concept of freedom and respect doesn't seem to be enough for many, therefore, our rhetoric and rebuke goes on to them. We do PK as well.

7: Not everyone is a UFF. We are not every player's thing. We are not out to recruit for a clan or to control others but we seek reform within existing other clans. If they don't reform, in our esteem, they are best off disbanding.


Vasshu Za Sutanpiido, did you read our UFF values on our page?...
http://dokimos.org/runescape


When it all comes down to it, this is but a game. But this game reflects also what players are as people very often. So what will it be tyrannical rule making and overlording or freedom from oppression.

In UFF we are not the oppressors. I am not the boss in UFF. No one is the boss in UFF. We are free and ourselves.

If other players want to choose to submit themselves to the slavery of other clans and think they are free, they are deluding themselves.

UFF encourages everyone to learn from the lessons of true history and understand what real freedom is about.

If these clans were real life clans, would you really think them so cool? Ah, but yet real people play this game. They aren't really killed but they are certainly belittled by the snooty exclusiveness of the Runescape self-made socially elite.

Oh, they don't like it when some don't think them so cool? To bad for them. Many others have had to face their attitudes for so long. It seems they can dish out the attitude well, but are bad about getting any criticism back.

It is time for the Runescape tyrants to be overthrown. The United Freedom Fighters is the revolution of Runescape.

[dokimos0rg]

Anti-PKers impose rules on others in Runescape to attempt by fear to restrict rightful freedoms of and in the wilderness. Who are they to tell us we can't freely PK there?

I do enjoy the fun of the politics of the Anti-PKers but UFF's political stance is contrary to that of the Anti-PKers.

One who gets pk'd repeatedly by another and returns to fight him back and gets a skull over his head is not necessarily someone guilty.

Someone without a skull might not really be innocent as time may have passed before his next return to the wilderness.

Anti-PKing is a hunting attitude like the PKers, only taking what seems like an opposite stance. The two really have much more in common than actually disagree about.

UFF had been ruthlessly hunted by Anti-PKers and not for just cause, either. Like as if Anti-PKers didn't get a thrill over PKing another player. Oh the blood lust they have! But that is there fun.

The real problem of Anti-PKers, again, are there restrictive clan rules and even more so their attempts to make rules on others in the wilderness.

United Freedom Fighters offers an alternative from this, which resembles what clans were when Runescape started. At least this is what I am told by Cspace. SeeD is a freedom clan and we enjoy its freedoms.

We are SeeDs. SeeD Clan should be brought back to its old glory and to even new greater glory than before. Glory, not in oppresing others with burdensome rules, but rather SeeD should grow in greater glory in its continued direction of player liberation.

From a game stand point, we all enjoy fighting for a cause, which is greater than just being friends who like to PK for no simple reason. Being so, what better cause to fight for than freedom?

We UFFs really aren't the bashers. We have been bashed and have united to stand against it. If you really want to defend the little guys, the bullies need to be put at bay indeed. I understand the Anti-PKing intent. Well meaning but the ends doesn't justify the means. You can't stop oppression by continuing it.

PKing others by Anti-PKers isn't the issue, they can PK who they like. The issue is the formation of rules on the wilderness by them. Rules and restrictions breed exclusive and controlling attitudes that make control freak players that are out-of-control damaging others with prideful cutdowns. We are sick of those attitudes and we have a right to stand against them.

This post has been edited by dokimos0rg: 10 June 2006 - 04:39 AM

[Res]

Thanks for actually taking the time to respond to this. For a sec, I thought you were just going to disregard it. And just for the sake of saving keystrokes, call me "Vash". Alot simpler.

Well, I'll be perfectly honest with you. You're being awfully pessimistic about the entire situation.

Have you ever taken into consideration that people in req clans might not leave because of so called tyranny? There are countless other reasons clans disband.

1. Loss of interest.
2. Moving on.
3. Getting upset with other members in the clan. (Not specifically leaders) *
4. Moving to other clans.
5. Etc.

* SeeD has had a few occassions where members left for conflicts with others. Never has it been with a leader. Doesn't matter that SeeD isn't a req clan, stuff happens in any clan. Some people just don't get along with others.

If these clans were real life clans, would you really think them so cool? Ah, but yet real people play this game.

Yes, I admire the US Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines with the utmost respect. All of which could be considered real life 'clans'. Not accepting lower lvl people (Those not in the top physical condition, but training them to be.) for the sake of protection of the other members.

Now then.. You say RuneScape exclusive clans are the ones degrading others? Have you looked at some of the lower lvls on world 39? You'd see some hellacious attitudes. It's not JUST req clan members, it's the entirety of the game, since Miniclip tookover. And req clans didn't start it, either. These little morons use anonymity of the internet to their advantage.

If you were going to be against a group of abusive players, be against abusive nublets. They're the ones that really deserve it.

BTW, I'd appreciate it if this discussion remained between you and I. (No worries, Star.)

I'll probably have to pick this discussion up tomorrow, but I thank you for taking the time to answer what questions I ask and clearing this whole fog up. Take it easy.

Love and Peace-
Vash the Stampede

[Chaz P K]

doki, maybe the reason anti pk clans hate you so much is cos u keep dissin em. like in ~ols skool uff~ that dudkiller join descendant guardians and ther was u tinkin UFF was betta? WTF!?!?!?!

[Valerie419]

We UFFs really aren't the bashers. We have been bashed and have united to stand against it. If you really want to defend the little guys, the bullies need to be put at bay indeed. I understand the Anti-PKing intent. Well meaning but the ends doesn't justify the means. You can't stop oppression by continuing it.

I disagree. Calling the other clans "gay" is bashing. If all the people in these said clans are, in fact, homosexual then yeah. But calling clans gay meaning to be exclusive is wrong. You ARE bashing the clans because they don't agree with what you say, and it's wrong.

And defending the little guys? You know what I say? "Stay out of the wilderness if you want to live!" It's as simple as that. Now someone is going to throw the "11st Falador Massacre" right in my face, I don't care. If you want to stay alive, don't do anything that could possibly get you in danger. It makes the game boring, but if you go out there and die, you can say it was your own fault.

I have a love/hate relationship with Machiavelli's "The end justifies the means." I did an English project on that mere philosophy. Although, I do agree with what you're saying here, it's a game! It's a pixelated game! If we were dealing with actual people in citys like Falador or Varrock, then yes, I woul be upset, but we're not. This is a game with no real people, in a fictional place, and sure it is difficult to get certain items in the game and things like that, but if you die in this game, you can log off afterwards and go have lunch with your parents. It's simple.

(Sorry, Mike, I couldn't help it.)

[philmygroin]

Lol dudekiller i remember him, Back in the old days we hunted and kill that {expletive antidisestablishmentarianized by Cspace} along time ago when his dissed us ages ago

[Chaz P K]

yer i remember him too. thought DG and WG wud help him agenst us lol...

[MR Hankey]

4: I imagine it may put down homosexuals to liken them unto restrictive clans or vice-versa but my actual use of the term "gay" was to indicate and emphasize their exclusiveness. I am not going into another long discourse and debate over the definition of the word "gay" again in this forum. If anyone has questions, let them look up old posts. Sorry you don't like the term but I am entitled to make an emphatic point this way.
-----

Then why dont you just use a different word are you trying to cause flame?

[philmygroin]

Yea im not really pleased about him using "gay" all the time

[Chaz P K]

ye doki, show us them some respect!