[Zziggywolf5]

Everyone, we need to stop pretending that this faction just needs a push in the right direction. This faction is not only inactive; it’s dead. Look at the topics right now. There is Charlie and Cspace posting topics about recruitment and me posting week-old Jagex news.

How many members do we have? 26? Not much of base for recruitment, especially since we’re all spread out on time zones on different days. Speaking of recruiting, surely the fact that the last three events to use as recruiting tools failed should give a hint. Five people come to an event meant to show that we’re active! Talk about irony!

At this point in inactivity, we are not going to be able to even get people to join to boost us. Any person we actually convince to come will see all the old, useless topics, or our members list, say: “I wanna be a part of a decent clan with more members,” and leave. Unless the person in question gives us a chance; then he/she will leave after no one goes to an event he/she tried to put together.

And Cspace wants us to recruit 64 new people. Can I ask how? Despite all the problems I just mentioned, how are we supposed to even keep the place organized on the very, very off chance we can? Can the faction even withstand a sudden rush of twice as many people joining? I doubt it, it’ll most likely end like UFF, spam and flaming until people get tired and leave. Plus, given our situation, I really don’t think we will get many (how should I say this?) “high-quality” people by parading around telling people they can get free stuff, as we did.

I’m not saying no one tried. Indeed, Charlie has worked quite hard at this, and Luco^™ and others have certainly not given up. But it is far too little, far too late.

Zziggywolf5

[Charlie]

Well Ziggy, although you make some excellent points, I have to disagree.

It takes one person to start a clan, recruit a few members, and hold events. Then those recruited recruit more, and attend and organize events. And so on.

Yes some people have given up on the RS Faction, but me and a few others haven't yet. And I can promise you I shall never give up.

I joined just as many of the older, more active SeeDs started to get bored of RS. I did for a small time too. I have read some of the older posts, and have seen SeeD in its former glory.

I want to do as much as I can to help SeeD regain its formed glory.

And about the flaming, I'm going to use myself as an example here.

Hey can i join plz im level 30 and a part time miner i love all the final fantasies coz they rock so can i join?

That is my first post in this forum. I used "improper" grammar and acted very much like a noob. Heh many of you probably think I still am a noob, but in my joining topic, there was not one bit of flaming, only helpful and welcoming SeeDs. And most of them are still here.

What changed? I don't know..but we need to stop it right now.

I am never going to give up on the RS Faction. And Ziggy, you shouldn't either

[Cspace]

SeeD started with less activity than we have now. Two of us thought "Maybe we'll start a clan", and we met Masterstuff and decided "Ok, let's do it". Three members, no website, no community, and no substantial means to recruit outside the game. Tip.It was the only real community that existed then, and it wasn't that into guilds. Our guild grew from nothing and progressed almost all the way to 2003 on Tripod and Ezboard. We recruited from within the game by doing events that catch people's attention.

Did we have a mob of people at those events? It was rare that we'd have more than seven... None of the remotely impressive screenshots were taken at the beginning.

http://www.cspacezon...album/a_119.jpg

That was impressive when it was taken, and some of those weren't even SeeDs.

We grew because the events were fun and we involved everyone who wanted to take a part. With far fewer resources than we have now, we grew from nothing to something much greater.

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Today we may not have a massive member base in Runescape, but we're hardly "dead". We have everything going for us within our community, and it's potentially a lot easier to recruit for a RS guild now than it was before. As an added bonus, almost every single member here has a Runescape account even if they don't play anymore. That means we have a large potential for events if they appear interesting... A member doesn't require constant activity to attend.

When it comes to the site, we also have better rankings on search engines than we've ever had, and we get visitors who are interested in SeeD every day. They leave because we aren't organized.

How hard is it to organize? How hard is it to make SeeD interesting for new members? We just need to get together and work at a single goal! I can't stress this enough. If we all did our part, then I promise that members will come to us. They may even flock to us. We just need to make the guild fun again, and that's easy to do if we try. It just can't be done by one member alone.

So who do we have with us, who are active in the community, and show or have shown active interest in getting the faction going?

• Charlie
• LuCo
• Mase Windu
• Masterstuff
• Moo
• Nazy
• Oh Noes
• Phieta
• Red Sentinel
• Res
• San Dani L
• Sebtelfair
• UnrealBLight
• Xmadole
• Yulinford
• Zach
• Ziggywolf
• Me

That's hardly nobody, and I'm sure I accidentally left some out (wasn't intentional).

Then why is the guild inactive if it has active members?



Because we aren't working together



It doesn't take much, but just talking about the RS faction won't get us anywhere. Charlie is providing a tangible means for us to get somewhere. We may not be active right now, but that's easy to change if we start working together.

When it comes to events, we should organize them with the intention of getting attention from others in the game. We could even organize events intended to incorporate other players who we find. Back when we didn't even have communities to advertise on, that was all we needed to do to grow.

Now that there are other communities all over the place... Perhaps it's time we start recruiting on them?

As for everyone who wants events, let's start hosting spontaneous ones. In general we have always had better luck with spontaneous events than planned ones. I'll host some of my own as well if I get the chance, and I'm not just blowing hot air when I say that.

And Cspace wants us to recruit 64 new people.

Actually I was saying that we could make a goal to reach 64 members, not recruit 64 members. That was the exact same goal we set in the beginning when we got our ideas together. As for the comment about giving free stuff, we actually used to say that members aren't entitled to get anything for free. To my knowledge we never advertised that we give free items, but we advertised ourselves as a fun, casual guild.

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Let's not get defeatist. You're right that we're not going anywhere at this moment, but we're not even recruiting yet... There isn't any reason to say it's hopeless, but such feelings will hold us back when others really do start organizing to move the guild forward.

I'm with Charlie. I hope others are as well, because when we start working together I promise that the whole outlook will change. There's just too much going for us in the community, and too much of a means for the guild to advance, for us to be anywhere near hopeless.

[Zziggywolf5]

Sorry, this post is kind of disjointed. I didn’t plan it like the last, so it follows my train of thought.

And Cspace wants us to recruit 64 new people.

Actually I was saying that we could make a goal to reach 64 members, not recruit 64 members.

Oops. My mistake. I guess I read that wrong.

Today we may not have a massive member base in Runescape, but we're hardly "dead". We have everything going for us within our community, and it's potentially a lot easier to recruit for a RS guild now than it was before. As an added bonus, almost every single member here has a Runescape account even if they don't play anymore. That means we have a large potential for events if they appear interesting... A member doesn't require constant activity to attend.

That’s great! Of course, if no one uses them, accounts aren’t very useful.

That's hardly nobody, and I'm sure I accidentally left some out (wasn't intentional).

I don’t believe I ever said that was “nobody”.

As for everyone who wants events, let's start hosting spontaneous ones. In general we have always had better luck with spontaneous events than planned ones. I'll host some of my own as well if I get the chance, and I'm not just blowing hot air when I say that.

May I point out again that we’re in different time zones? Charlie is 5 hours ahead of me. So is Luco^™. Masterstuff is an hour behind. Somehow I doubt that is good for spontaneous events. Although, I suppose you’re right they have better turnouts. Of course, I’ve never been able to go to one.

As for the comment about giving free stuff, we actually used to say that members aren't entitled to get anything for free. To my knowledge we never advertised that we give free items, but we advertised ourselves as a fun, casual guild.

That was just an off comment on the last event.

And about the flaming, I'm going to use myself as an example here.

Hey can i join plz im level 30 and a part time miner i love all the final fantasies coz they rock so can i join?

That is my first post in this forum. I used "improper" grammar and acted very much like a noob. Heh many of you probably think I still am a noob, but in my joining topic, there was not one bit of flaming, only helpful and welcoming SeeDs. And most of them are still here.

What changed? I don't know..but we need to stop it right now.

Ah, you hit a point there. SeeD once was not this way. But now it is. I have no idea what happened and I doubt anyone really does for sure, but if you don’t know the problem, it’s kind of hard to fix.

I joined just as many of the older, more active SeeDs started to get bored of RS. I did for a small time too. I have read some of the older posts, and have seen SeeD in its former glory.

I want to do as much as I can to help SeeD regain its formed glory.

I used to read the older RS SeeD posts, but I don’t anymore. It’s too depressing to see the difference today.

When it comes to the site, we also have better rankings on search engines than we've ever had, and we get visitors who are interested in SeeD every day. They leave because we aren't organized.

I think the fact that we don’t actually have events besides twice a year may have something to do with it.

Zziggywolf5

[Res]

People leveled up. That's what happened. For some reason, many SeeDs have adopted the "Elitist {expletive run over by Cspace}" outlook.

I'm guilty of it myself.. To those who deserve it, of course. People who are worthy of the title "moron". Like that Alpha fellow a while back. (Not Neraphym.)

But now, on the rare occassion we have new members that actually play RuneScape that join and they post with.. 'less than acceptable' grammar, a "Hello welcome to SeeD" is.. probably 9 times out of 10 not meant in the way it's typed. It's probably meant to just look good.

"Hey! Welcome to SeeD!! "

How many people would really mean that if when they type it? How many people would chase down a new member when they don't come back? When they register, post, and leave? Seldom few.

There's more, but I must consult Cspace before revealing the rest. Thank you.

[Cspace]

I don’t believe I ever said that was “nobody”.

I said "nobody", because "dead" often corresponds with "nobody" when referring to a guild. I was also not just replying to you, but just speaking to the faction and using this thread as an excuse for it.

May I point out again that we’re in different time zones? Charlie is 5 hours ahead of me. So is Luco^™. Masterstuff is an hour behind. Somehow I doubt that is good for spontaneous events. Although, I suppose you’re right they have better turnouts. Of course, I’ve never been able to go to one.

I remember many spontaneous events with people in Australia, North America, and England all online. It can be done if an event is either hosted early for North America or late for North America, there are a few gaps that tend to work for people if one time zone's members feel ambitious. Back when I used to host things, I found that late in Eastern Standard Time tends to work if time zones are an issue... It's not so late for the west coast, Australia is getting home from school, and England is starting to sign on. I know we have some night owls on the east coast.

They also don't have to work for everyone, we have the same difficulty when it comes to time zones as any other guild. Three blocks tend to work well in my opinion...

• There's a block where everyone from Central Time to western European time zones will have an easy time having an event. It can be done directly following when those in Central Time finish dinner.
• There's another block for all North American time zones that can work very easily. It's at about 10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time.
• That block can easily blend into Australia's time zones for a third "block" that comes soon after. This is about when the North America's east coast is (supposed ) to go sleep.

Central Time probably has it the easiest because they can catch anyone online without stretching their day too much. Also, I'm probably going to be proven wrong, but I'm not sure of any Australian members here who currently play Runescape. If I'm right about that, events would be even easier to host.

Five hours difference isn't that bad, it's the difference between 7:00 PM and midnight. Luckily, there's the ocean to dictate that we don't need to worry about those in the middle, so we can get creative and find a time in the late afternoon that would also be perfect for those in Europe.

Ah, you hit a point there. SeeD once was not this way. But now it is. I have no idea what happened and I doubt anyone really does for sure, but if you don’t know the problem, it’s kind of hard to fix.

What's the unfixable problem? I only know of two who give them a hard time, everyone else should try to overshadow such comments. It's entirely in their power to do so, and when they are the ones to advance in the guild, the others will get the idea. It's a problem, but it's entirely in our power to fix.

There were times when it was much worse, when the members were even trying to hold SeeD back. We aren't nearly facing that today, let's not exaggerate the outlying comments and instead just handle them. We shouldn't expect a guild that allows free thought to have all members conform, but the members can provide a lot of pressure to do the right thing.

I think the fact that we don’t actually have events besides twice a year may have something to do with it.

That's a big exaggeration, and our recent planning has been to increase the number of events anyway.



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For you to go through this to show concern shows only one thing: You want SeeD to be a better guild.

All the work Charlie is going through to push our RS faction shows the same thing.

From talking with Res on MSN, and from his notice and contribution to this thread, he feels the same.

From talking with Red Sentinel, and from scattered discussions on our forums, he wants our RS faction to pick up. To my knowledge he's been directly helping Charlie with this.

Phieta has shown on MSN and here that he wishes for the faction to pick up.

Moo has shown that he wants the RS faction to pick up, but has apparently been having some trouble in real life which is keeping him from here at the moment.

... And many others talk about the Runescape Faction. People want it to pick up.

It's hardly dead. We're a rudderless ship right now, but we're a ship nonetheless. Let's find a direction and start working to get there, it will take less time than we've spent discussing the future.

Say "no" to Doom 'N' Gloom and let's pull the future to us. We all want the same thing. How about we all start carrying out the plans we've been discussing for a year and not let the entire faction rest on Charlie.



It's when the members stop caring about the faction that I'd worry. I even consider this thread as vindication that there's still life remaining! We just need to get everyone together who wants to see the faction succeed, and then we can start moving again. It's not as hard as some would make it out to be.

[Atilla]

How many people would really mean that if when they type it? How many people would chase down a new member when they don't come back? When they register, post, and leave? Seldom few.

Part of this is our inactivity. They register, post and leave because they see we're not doing much in runescape.

[Charlie]

And about the free stuff thing, that was not to recruit members, it was more about creating that SeeD Train and getting a good screenshot

[Red Sentinel]

Guys, listen.

I've actually been trying to recruit guys to here, in secrecy, irl. I've tried to get oldschool SeeDs to come back, I've tried to persuade around 150 on them on AIM, which no current SeeD knew I was. I've tried to keep active on RS.

BUT, There's only one person who shares my timezone, and that's Traver. He rarely plays. Everyone else is in a different timezone. And the persons I got to actually look at SeeD, claimed there was too much well, babying around here. The oldschool seeds didn't want to come back because of previous differences or inactivity.
Again, I am active on RS, but I don't really do anything SeeD-ish on RS, like helping out anyone that's from SeeD or something like that.

Face it, there's not much hope to get this running as it once was. Too many of us has lost the urge and vision to put a lot of hard work into here.

[Bodom]

Mike got it right tbh, oldschool seeds wont be coming back, and with todays RS players this clan wont hold much, eveyrone can get 100+ combat iwthin two months easy and theyre wanting to join high ranking active clans

[Cspace]

I've actually been trying to recruit guys to here, in secrecy, irl. I've tried to get oldschool SeeDs to come back, I've tried to persuade around 150 on them on AIM, which no current SeeD knew I was. I've tried to keep active on RS.

I appreciate that, but what exactly will recruiting do when the guild isn't prepared for it? We're inactive right now, and we're planning to become more active. We're planning events and getting things together. That doesn't change the fact that right now we're inactive as a faction. Recruiting "in secrecy" isn't going to do anything for an inactive guild that can't even prepare for it due to lack of communication. We can appeal to them, but not if we don't know they're coming. You can't make a point about SeeD by doing what you did.

Everyone's going rogue... You're doing your own thing, some are making their own plans and ignoring the group, and some are seeing failure and complaining. That's not a guild! Let's work together! I don't know why it's so hard, Charlie's making it easy for everyone!

BUT, There's only one person who shares my timezone, and that's Traver. He rarely plays. Everyone else is in a different timezone.

There are only five SeeDs I know of that are in my time zone for certain (who I don't know in rl). None of them play Runescape. Does that discourage me from coming to events? No, because it doesn't matter. Why? Because events can occur at times that will work for many time zones. Please read my previous reply.

Again, I am active on RS, but I don't really do anything SeeD-ish on RS, like helping out anyone that's from SeeD or something like that.

Why not?


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What's the point of this? Why are SeeDs striving to prove that SeeD is inactive, as opposed to wanting to fix it? I don't understand it... If someone wants to help the guild, don't try to discourage it. Some are trying to reorganize the guild, why not work with them? As long as we resist it, yeah, there's going to be something to complain about.

What do we want more? To be able to complain about SeeD, or to actually benefit the guild?

[Red Sentinel]

I appreciate that, but what exactly will recruiting do when the guild isn't prepared for it? We're inactive right now, and we're planning to become more active. We're planning events and getting things together. That doesn't change the fact that right now we're inactive as a faction. Recruiting "in secrecy" isn't going to do anything for an inactive guild that can't even prepare for it due to lack of communication. We can appeal to them, but not if we don't know they're coming. You can't make a point about SeeD by doing what you did.

You posted that you want people to come to SeeD, but now you won't? Please, make up your mind.

Everyone's going rogue... You're doing your own thing, some are making their own plans and ignoring the group, and some are seeing failure and complaining. That's not a guild! Let's work together! I don't know why it's so hard, Charlie's making it easy for everyone!

Because SeeD doesn't focus on RS anymore, SeeD isn't a guild anymore, is it simply 5-6 small, rather inactive guilds that shares the same website!

There are only five SeeDs I know of that are in my time zone for certain (who I don't know in rl). None of them play Runescape. Does that discourage me from coming to events? No, because it doesn't matter. Why? Because events can occur at times that will work for many time zones. Please read my previous reply

But then again, how often are you on RS?

Why not?

I have too much to do, irl and on RS. The SeeD spirit isn't there anymore ;\

[Atilla]

People leveled up. That's what happened. For some reason, many SeeDs have adopted the "Elitist {expletive run over by Cspace}" outlook.

This is quite sad, because SeeD once stood against elitists as one of the few guilds that would take anyone and everyone.

[Res]

True it is sad. But the attitude of a few members can affect a whole lot.

[Bodom]

People leveled up. That's what happened. For some reason, many SeeDs have adopted the "Elitist {expletive run over by Cspace}" outlook.

This is quite sad, because SeeD once stood against elitists as one of the few guilds that would take anyone and everyone.

Yup is quite sad i didnt stay level 50 forever.