[Cspace]

I'm receiving mixed responses about this, and seeing how the previous thread became a little disjointed I figured that I'd start another with everything at the top.

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The Reason For Change:

• We aren't really organized to simplify the existence of Factions, nor are we logically organized from the perspective of new members.
• Recruiting is very difficult with name conflicts. The name "SeeD" is more closely tied to the RS Faction than to any other Faction. Those joining for our RS guild would think that SeeD isn't a Runescape guild, and those joining from other games by indirect means will see SeeD as RS-centered. As a side effect, the RS Faction (which is where we came from) is seriously pushed into the background by being called the "Runescape Faction" instead of by its name.
• The guild itself isn't tangibly multi-game... It feels like a conglomerate or alliance within a common community.
• To annoy Darkness

So What Is My Idea?

Change the theme: We would change to a theme not currently shared by any Faction so no parallels exist. Our overall guild would have a name along the lines of an "Order"... Something that sounds closer knit than a legion or army, but something that still sounds important. Long history, mysterious-sounding from the outside, implies experience for our members, and wrongfully underestimated when involved in a conflict. Being member-led, the theme would heighten the implied importance and capabilities of any single member instead of a standard military hierarchy. Factions and Gardens will become "Councils" by name, which don't require a direct connection to a specific game (though most logically will). This could give members even more freedom. To further this we could branch from the "Partner" system to make an optional Master/Apprentice sort of thing, for older members to guide newer members if desired. This was suggested before but doesn't make sense for our current context.

Update The Ranks: Don't remove the numbers, but give them a name other than "SeeD Rank" (obviously). It could be something like "Tier" or a number of other things along those lines. That aside, we would expand the "SeeD Positions" (Commander, Instructor, Contact, etc.). The ones we have will probably be kept with changed names, and more will be added which were limitations before. They'll have names that don't conflict with normal guilds, just to prevent overlaps with Councils (like no "Officers" or "Generals"). There will be those who can manage ranks in an ideal situation, so it's not just me. They also won't just be SMods.

Support Member Leadership: The whole system could be wrapped around the idea that members lead. We could have some fun with this and allow members to determine their leadership specialties (I'm sure there'll be a better name for that if this is implemented). Stuff like "perception", "charisma", and "determination" (among many more) would be included in a profile field that is displayed in your posts. To go with this, a place will be provided for members to discuss leadership: Something that would benefit all councils and perhaps even stuff in reality. Topics relating to recruitment, ranks, and anything else in a guild would be discussed. Who knows, maybe we'll find a formula or standard for outside guilds to follow as well.

Support Community: Being a member of our Order won't require membership in a Council. Similarly, being in a Council isn't required to organize something in a game. You could simply be a member of the Order in and of itself. If the new system is implemented I would officially blur the division between CurvedSpace and our guild, which may help to promote interaction between games in the absence of a Garden system.

Maintain Roots: We could maintain an an old-school Council named "SeeD". Being a Council (which is modular) it wouldn't confuse new members. Within this Council would exist the Gardens and anything else important to us at this point. You can continue to associate with SeeD as you always have. In effect the guild would expand around SeeD, not replace it.


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So this is where the idea stands. Remember that it's just an idea and is nothing final. I've been thinking about a change along these lines for a long time, and seeing how we're possibly at the beginning of a new expansion, now would be a better time than any to resolve the issues we face. We could treat it as a new beginning of sorts, and you can be a part of it!

[Zziggywolf5]

Sounds pretty good. Of course, any organization would be nice. I'm a bit confused about a few things, as usual.

• Factions are groups of gamers, aren't they? If the game connotation is removed, what are they then?
• If Factions and Gardens both become "Councils," what separates them enough to keep them both?
• Or are the gardens/factions going?
• I still am wondering the point of changing names.

I like the ideas for 'Support Member Leadership.' I think it would firmly establish the member-led concept and help get people into the "governing" of SeeD. I wish I could have thought of a better term, oh well.

[kelik]

Mmm sounds good, but this is a retro question.

What exactly was the point of gardens anyways? If I remember back, I was apart of the Steel dragon army i think, and now presently esthar garden. I joined them, but never got a sense of the reason I should have in the first place.

[Rohtaren]

sounds like a good idea to me too. i also don't really understand the purpose of gardens, if most of them are innactive, why keep them?
another thing i don't really understand is the rank system, old or new. i haven't understood exactly how to rise in rank for a long time. as a result, i beleive that if and when the rank system is revised or renamed, it should be explained to everyone. maybe it should even be added to the rank and position guide here.

[Cspace]

Factions in our current system are intended to focus on specific games, most of which being actual in-game guilds that our members form. An example is the Defenders of Aderon, which is our Guild Wars faction and is also a guild we formed in the game (using its guild support).

Gardens are a little archaic right now. They originated waaay back as a way to group members when the member list wasn't attached to the forums. We adapted them to the factions by making them inter-game divisions intended to promote interaction, blurring the divisions the factions naturally create. They ended up not being needed for that purpose, although some found their own reasons for keeping them going which was fine.

When I say that both will be "Councils", basically I mean that Councils are like Factions that aren't required to be attached to a specific game. Neither Factions or Gardens will actually disappear, they'll just be consolidated into the same idea for simplicity. Regardless, the most logical use for Councils will continue to be to organize a guild much like what Factions do now, but the option would exist for Councils to have other purposes. The factions that exist right now would be unchanged.



As for the reason for changing names, it would be to make things less confusing for new members. The Runescape Faction dug its roots as "SeeD", and was forced to become the "Runescape Faction". Those joining for our RS aspects could see SeeD as not focusing in Runescape, while those joining from other factions could see SeeD as revolving around Runescape, simply because the name is referring to multiple things. We came from Runescape and it probably does that Faction justice to have its name returned to it, and to allow other factions to feel equally important without being in the RS Faction's shadow.

[Aaron]

I like this "More Complete Vision." I need not to say anything more. I say we try it.

[Dragonman]

Sounds nice to keep things moving on and to adapt to the times. Like I suggested to Cspace over MSN earlier, maybe SeeD Rank could be called 'Honors' (that the only thing that came to mind).

Anyways, to all that are confused, I believe this movement is in order for us to -not- be as confused with our organization, so I think it'll be best to support these ideas and help them sustain themselves.