[Cspace]

There are some problems that are getting to me with the current system...

• It's really just a karma system right now. The whole thing would be better if the Tiers had a purpose.
• I don't like being the only one who gives Tier promotions.
• Since Tiers technically go up to infinity, higher numbers aren't weighted differently. If they had a purpose, the relative "power" of new members would go down in comparison to older members. The reason is because the scale will always be growing.
• It's difficult to give promotions for doing stuff within factions. The reason is simply that I wouldn't always know about it.

Here's my solution to all of this:


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Remove the numbered ranks, and go back to a named system. Since almost all "real" responsibilities are already covered, the system could exist for the sake of running the system. That sounds pointless, but hear me out.

Members will naturally want higher ranks. To do it, they will need to interact with each other. Higher ranks will be able to influence more of the system, and get potentially fun perks like being able to give optional assignments. So what are the ranks?

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- Initiate: Anyone who wants to be ranked can simply ask (in the Council of Luscartia) to be made an Initiate. This is the first rank. The only requirement is that a Sphere must be chosen.

- Neophyte: Any Knight or above can promote an Initiate to Neophyte. This is the second rank.

- Adept: Any Consular or above can promote a Neophyte to Adept. This is the third rank.

- Knight: Any Consular or above can promote an Adept to Knight. This is the fourth rank. Knights can freely give "assignments", which are entirely volunteer, and are either intended to help the Order or just be fun for members to do. They can be given to specific members, or be open for anyone to accept. They would usually involve more than one member.

- Consular: A Knight can be promoted to Consular by the collective decision of four masters. This is the fifth rank.

- Master: This is the highest rank, and can effectively manage the Tier system.

Promotions to anything below Consular can be made up to once per week by a single member. A promotion to Consular would be the collective decision of four Masters.

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Since the system would be handled by the members, and since the ranks are finite, they might be more meaningful than the current Tiers. They also fit the motif of the Order better than numbers. For those who didn't know, the "Arbiters' Order" in DS is a wise and secretive order of knights with a variety of backgrounds. Numbers probably wouldn't suit them well, unlike with SeeD.

The system would also be handled in the open, within the Council of Luscartia (our guild leadership-oriented forum). We could actually have some good discussions there involving guilds and other stuff.


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Anyway, I'm trying to make this all meaningful, and I welcome feedback.

[Goto]

Hmmm... Interesting idea, I have one or two reservations but overall I think it would probably be an improvement on the current system.

I'm a little bit worried about the complexity of the system, we've all seen how ideas that sound great on paper don't tend to work out in reality because they're overly ambitious and require fairly constant effort on the part of members. However it's also true (as you said) that you would no longer be the only one giving out promotions. Not that you've been doing a bad job of giving out tiers, but you've got a lot on your plate already and are hardly omniscient.

I'm in favour of the idea in general, however some details would probably need to be worked out. Would we be starting everyone from scratch, or giving new tiers based on the old tier system? There'd probably need to be some sort of guide to how easily each of the promotions should be handed out, to equalize things and give them meaning. It might also be worth adding in an extra rank or two towards the middle, we want to be able to reward people without having half the forums at Consular or Master within a month or two.

[Cspace]

Would we be starting everyone from scratch, or giving new tiers based on the old tier system?

It would probably be best to have some sort of conversion.

There'd probably need to be some sort of guide to how easily each of the promotions should be handed out, to equalize things and give them meaning.

Indeed. It would also probably be good to make some sort of background for the ranks in DS, since I would probably be bringing them into the game to match our guild.

It might also be worth adding in an extra rank or two towards the middle, we want to be able to reward people without having half the forums at Consular or Master within a month or two.

That's probably a good idea. Perhaps another rank above and below Knight or its equivalent.

I'm a little bit worried about the complexity of the system, we've all seen how ideas that sound great on paper don't tend to work out in reality because they're overly ambitious and require fairly constant effort on the part of members.

That's my biggest concern, but even if members lose interest and stop participating in the system, it probably wouldn't be any worse than the Tiers we have now. I'll still be giving promotions as well, but at least with this system the members will have the opportunity to give promotions of their own.

[Goto]

Yeah, it seems fairly well thought through to me. At worst it'll be roughly equivalent to our current system, with most people losing interest in promoting and it just being you. Realistically it's likely to be an improvement. The stuff I was pointing out about having a few more ranks and so forth, that's just minor details. I'd be very interested to hear any suggestions, criticisms etc. that anyone else had to share.

[x..]

Nice idea, making thread now.

[Dragonman]

To give even more choice to the members, maybe we can add a reputation system with this? I can't remember if it's been suggested before.. probably, seeing as it's been six years. =P

Anyways, if you reach a certain Tier (maybe one right after Knight that Goto suggested?), you could have the power to +rep other members for whatever acts. For example, one would probably +rep Darkness for that CurvedSpace video he made. I'm too sure about the -rep'ing, since there's not much we would -rep for in a community like CS.

As for the names, maybe we could get a little more random with them, since we do indeed like random. Things like Jedi, Elite... I can't think of others right now. But they would still have to have a decent sense of progression. For example, a Neophyte wouldn't rank over a Jedi.

[Zziggywolf5]

I really don't have an opinion at this time so I'll think about it and maybe I will.

[Cspace]

Well, there's profile rating that I can turn on if we all want it (although I would urge against it). I can't limit it to certain ranks, but it's a rating system that wouldn't confuse people. I'd be afraid to go more complicated than that, because then we would in effect be bringing back the Tiers this is intended to replace. I'll start another thread about this in a second.



As for names, I'm open to suggestions. There can be more than two additions to the ranks, because Goto is right that we need to be able to easily promote members without making the ranks top-heavy. Everyone should just keep in mind that the DS counterpart will reflect our guild, so I'm not sure about using names like Jedi.

[Darkness]

I like this idea I assume that with this, there will also be a field within one's profile (viewable with each post) displaying one's Tier? Err... If they're still called Tiers

Anyway. I figure there should probably be about ten or eleven tiers, not just Cspace's original six or Goto's additional two. Ten or so seems like it would make it so that a member could have a goal to become a consular or whatever, and wouldn't be able to achieve it within the -near- future. Just so it doesn't feel easy to reach the top, and then have nowhere to go

[Cspace]

Revised!


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Anyone of the proper rank can promote one member, at most, once per week. Each rank holds the same capabilities of the previous ranks (you don't lose anything if you're promoted). Nobody can promote a member by more than one rank at a time (can't jump from Initiate to Neophyte, for example).

Every promotion requires a thread to be posted in the Council of Luscartia by the member who gave it, including SMods and above who don't need help adding the rank to a profile. If one who gives a promotion is not a SMod, a SMod should follow up to make it official.


- Initiate: "Free" rank. You won't get any promotions without requesting the Initiate rank first, which can be done in the Council of Luscartia.

- Wayfarer: Can get free rum at the Wayfarer's Tavern. It'll never be gone unless Phieta is online.

- Neophyte

- Apprentice

- Guide: Can promote a member up to Wayfarer.

- Adept: Can give assignments geared for groups of up to three Arbiters. Assignments are optional missions intended to either be fun, or be helpful for our guild.

- Herald: Can promote a member up to Apprentice.

- Veteran

- Knight: Can promote a member up to Herald. Can freely give assignments.

- Guardian: Can promote a member up to Veteran.

- Consular: Can promote a member up to Knight.

- Master: Can promote a member up to Guardian. With the consent of four Masters, can promote a member up to Consular.

[Zziggywolf5]

I have come back with an actual opinion. I think it's a good idea. It should give members more initiative and reinforce the member-led ideal.
The two biggest problem are that someone could abuse this somewhat easily, and someone could be blacklisted, leaving a gap between them and those who dislike that person.

[Charlie]

Sounds like a great idea, but I think promotions should be spaced out a bit more, in the way that instead of having a maximum amount of promotions as 1 per week, have it at something like 1 per 3 weeks, that way it would take a while for people to get promoted to the higher ranks.

And, will everyone start as a initiate?

[Cspace]

And, will everyone start as a initiate?

Nope, there would be some sort of conversion.

[Yevgeny Borisovitch Volgin]

And, will everyone start as a initiate?

Nope, there would be some sort of conversion.

Ah, so as in they shall get the equivalent of the tiers that they have got?
(It think I just... confused myself in that last sentence.)

Anyway, it looks like a good idea.

[x..]

Can I be ranked? I like having ranks. hehe. At 666 posts at Sal's you get the title "Devil" (custom member group, you can request not to get your posts counted.)