[Cspace]

Everyone seems to hate hybrids except me. Contrary to popular myth, hybrids can be effective characters in GW. They don't have the best DPS, or the best healing, or the best nukes, and they don't make the best tanks, but they can be good at two or even three different roles. But why be good instead of best?

Versatility!

A versatile character can arguably be the best henchman-herder, but one can also have a place in groups. Almost every other MMOG provides hybrid classes, and they are known to have a role in groups. GW provides the freedom to have a hybrid build as well, and one such character would have the same role as in any other MMOG.

Hybrids are known to fill out groups, back up other characters, and reduce a group's weaknesses by providing more flexibility. They are not meant to be the best at any single role, but are intended to provide something for any situation. One common hybrid is a healer/nuker, who can nuke when a group needs DPS, and heal when a group needs to play defensively. Another common hybrid is a tank/healer, who tends to be an OT (off-tank), providing a support role while also being able to tank. Other common hybrids are DPS/debuffer, tank/DPS, DPS/nuker, and healer/debuffer.

A group of specialists will be capable, but lacks flexibility. They are likely to experience a wider range of difficulties when facing various encounters. Some encounters will cause trouble for a defensive group, others will cause trouble for an offensive group, and even a balanced group will feel this. The thing is, groups of specialists won't be able to adapt as well as they would sometimes like. That's why one or two hybrid characters can help... They can change their role in response to situations.


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So which characters make the best hybrids? You'll probably have the easiest time with a primary class that is balanced, with decent armor and decent energy. Rangers, paragons, and dervishes will probably be the easiest to play as hybrids, but it's not impossible with other classes.

So what builds would I recommend? I won't recommend anything, because you should do what feels right to you. A hybrid build, more than any other role, should reflect your own strengths. You'll be improvising a lot, so you want to be comfortable with what you're doing. A hybrid that gets confused will not help a group at all.

What flavor should your build have? I would highly recommend that the secondary role requires as little energy as possible. This way you can fulfill your primary role, but also fulfill your secondary role at the same time if necessary. I would also recommend skills that provide useful effects without maxed stats. Contrary to what many will say, maxed stats aren't always necessary. For example, with Apply Poison, who cares how long the poison lasts if you're applying it with every shot for a constant length of time? If an ability isn't intended for damage (such as Disrupting Lunge), but the stat boosts a damage side-effect alone, why spend more points than you need? If you need to spend five stat points for one more second of some effect, is it really worth it beyond a certain point?

Those are all things for you to think about. Stats are important, and you should not spread yourself too thin, but really think about where you need the points. I'd only recommend that your weapon stat is maxed (if applicable)... Everything else is up to you. Try and value the utility of abilities, and not just the numbers behind them.

Lastly, about builds... Don't get too attached to one thing. As a hybrid, you're probably going to need to swap skills depending on the needs of a particular group. There's nothing wrong with improvising, especially as a hybrid, because your build already won't be entirely coherent.


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So what is a hybrid's place in a group? I would not recommend a group full of hybrids, but I see it as a role just like the tanks, healers, and DPS. You're not going to be the hero, but you will make things a lot easier for the group if you know what you're doing. You're a midfielder.

A fighter doesn't want to step back, and a spellcaster doesn't want to be in the front. A ranger or paragon, however, can do either with just one or two blocking skills. A fighter doesn't want to switch targets to heal or do anything fancy, but what about another spellcaster? A secondary healer role can be handled by any watchful spellcaster. What about a fighter that relies on adrenaline... What could you do with the energy? Maybe you'll want to take a look at those persistent skills that reduce energy regeneration, such as Mending, as they won't necessarily hurt your role as a tank. What about other nifty spells such as Well of Blood, which don't require a target switch, and can be used without spending much energy? At least with Well of Blood, even a low level of it can indirectly counter many DoT effects for the tanks. What about minions? You spend the energy between battles, and they can cause enemies to mis-fire nukes and other good stuff in PvE. What creative things can you do with a ranger pet? With practice, you can occupy two mobs for a while. What about interrupting? That can be done with a couple low-cost ranger skills, and good timing. How can a non-fighter effectively tank? Blocking. You may be surprised how well this turns out, one-on-one, against a warrior.

There are a lot of ways to build a hybrid character. Just remember that I'd recommend a primary role which is your main contribution to a group, which is also based on your primary class. Your secondary role is where you can get creative, and you may find some interesting combinations.


In the end, though, it's not your build that is effective... It's you. A hybrid build may appear weird to others, but you know what you're doing with it. Hybrid classes tend to be thinking classes, where your situation could change very quickly in the middle of a battle, and you'll need to know what the group needs the most and what you can realistically provide at the time. Just learn from mistakes and have fun with it! A hybrid can be one of the most fun roles to play.

[Goto]

Hmm.. Not a whole lot I want to say in regards to this, but a few clarifications. It seems to me that coming from other MMOs whose classes don't directly match to those in GW, several of your 'hybrid' roles as they would be in other games are actually single roles in GW. DPS/Nuker isn't really a hybrid when nukers are already one of the best choices for DPS, and without aggro management in the game many tanks are set up to also provide decent DPS. I don't see myself as a hybrid class, but I'm mostly focusing on DPS and the others usually think of me as a tank. Debuffing isn't a 'role' as such in GW, it's simply part of the primary skillset of several classes. People can fulfill multiple roles in a party without actually needing to become a hybrid character, and I think that could well be a source of confusion at first for some people given backgrounds in other MMOs.

Hybrids can certainly be effective at times, but I still maintain that they're less effective in GW than in some other games. This could well stem from the versatility that was added into GW shortly after release. In other games as you level up you would generally specialize, limiting the roles that character could take. Thus if you're playing with the same group of people in a variety of encounters, hybrid characters help to make up for that fairly rigidly defined class structure. From the start of Guild Wars you were able to spend these reassignment point things you got from exp to modify your attributes, and soon after they scrapped that entirely so you could modify them at will in any outpost. Once they allowed you to change secondary profession at the click of a button, I think that perhaps prevents hybrid characters from being as important as they would be elsewhere. If you know exactly where you're going, the specialists can specialize in what you need, providing an overall stronger team for that situation. This works mostly because of the highly instanced nature of Guild Wars, you're not needing to traverse across several different kinds of area to get to your destination. Heroes contributed to this as well, you can fill out groups with exactly the kinds of characters you need, rather than hybrid characters needing to pick up the slack when the party is deficient in a particular area.


I'm not saying that nobody should play a hybrid, or that they never have a useful role to play. Just expanding on my reasoning as to why they're usually not the most effective choice. I think the thing a lot of people forget though is that it's a game. Like we were talking about in that pets topic, it's as important for builds to be fun and easy to use as it is for them to be effective. Tanny picks his skills partly because they have dirty names, I take more of a DPS approach than I should because I like hitting for big numbers, and apparently Lynn insists on trying to tank when I'm not around. If a particular playing style is fun and isn't causing your party to wipe out (looking at Ratty and Tanny with that one, Perdition Rock ) then you should feel free to go with it.

[Cspace]

It seems to me that coming from other MMOs whose classes don't directly match to those in GW, several of your 'hybrid' roles as they would be in other games are actually single roles in GW. DPS/Nuker isn't really a hybrid when nukers are already one of the best choices for DPS, and without aggro management in the game many tanks are set up to also provide decent DPS. I don't see myself as a hybrid class, but I'm mostly focusing on DPS and the others usually think of me as a tank. Debuffing isn't a 'role' as such in GW, it's simply part of the primary skillset of several classes. People can fulfill multiple roles in a party without actually needing to become a hybrid character, and I think that could well be a source of confusion at first for some people given backgrounds in other MMOs.

With that I was more trying to give a background for what I meant by "hybrid", and the examples I provided at the top were mostly from other games. I wasn't clear about it, and I apologize about that.

In other games as you level up you would generally specialize, limiting the roles that character could take. Thus if you're playing with the same group of people in a variety of encounters, hybrid characters help to make up for that fairly rigidly defined class structure.

GW does provide a lot more freedom, but the general player base went down the road of specialization. That's mostly why I'm pushing this.

Once they allowed you to change secondary profession at the click of a button, I think that perhaps prevents hybrid characters from being as important as they would be elsewhere. If you know exactly where you're going, the specialists can specialize in what you need, providing an overall stronger team for that situation. This works mostly because of the highly instanced nature of Guild Wars, you're not needing to traverse across several different kinds of area to get to your destination. Heroes contributed to this as well, you can fill out groups with exactly the kinds of characters you need, rather than hybrid characters needing to pick up the slack when the party is deficient in a particular area.

The point isn't really to make up for missing roles, but to allow a group to adapt. You can prepare for anything, but sometimes stuff just happens. Maybe it's a series of unlucky rolls, a bad pull, or an unexpected boss of a highly inconvenient type. It's hard to prepare for everything, so being able to adapt can be important. A hybrid can also back up a necessary role, such as healer or tank, so one could act as a last line of defense against a wipe in difficult situations. Rangers and paragons would be more suited to back up the fighters, while spellcasters would be more suited to back up the healers. In my opinion, I think a group should have one ranger or paragon ready to back the tank(s), and one spellcaster ready to back the healer(s). Two slots and eight stat points are all that would be necessary.

I'm not saying to sacrifice normal strengths for the chance that something goes wrong, but with some primary roles, it's easy to be a hybrid. In terms of builds, I normally consider two slots to be standard for fulfilling the secondary role. If you can't afford those two slots, then your primary role may not work with a hybrid build. If you need more than two slots for the secondary role, on the other hand, things may start getting complicated.

[Neraphym]

I think you're wrong, Cspace. There actually are some legitimate hybrids out there that people can use and be accepted in elite areas. I have two builds which are hybrid, one for the Uw and one for the FoW. I'll post them here, later.

[Cspace]

I think you're wrong, Cspace. There actually are some legitimate hybrids out there that people can use and be accepted in elite areas. I have two builds which are hybrid, one for the Uw and one for the FoW. I'll post them here, later.

This thread is about why hybrids are useful, so I agree with you.

My point about them not being popular is that the common view of a group seems to involve a group of specialists. If eight players each focus on one area that the group needs, then that's often viewed as the most effective group because it seems to be the most organized and output the highest numbers. I'm trying to explain why having one or two versatile characters in a group can actually help a group in the long run by reducing its weaknesses.

[Rylkan]

I don't see myself as a hybrid class, but I'm mostly focusing on DPS and the others usually think of me as a tank.

Hey, you're the god of war, you can take a slight beating for us.

Seriously though, since we never bring tanks of any kind, the 110 armor is alot more than any of us tend to use. Closest we get is us rangers playing the elemental tank.

I won't say anything, I see what everyone is saying and would be repeating arguments from both sides. But I DO enjoy sometimes using my Mesmer and just going with skill stealing moves and Sig of Illusions, that way it's a totally random build. It's fun, unexpected, and on rare occasion, useful.