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I'm not gonna state my position on this one, just because I don't wanna get into an argument. Just thought I'd let you guys discuss this one.
Check out this article--------> Abortion Article
Abortion Mother's right or murder?
#1
ratzaroony 
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Posted 07 April 2004 - 12:57 AM
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#2
ticktockclok
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Posted 07 April 2004 - 02:52 AM
lol, da point of the debate forum is argument 
And now we have the quote of the day, from greenl2l: PLONGED!!!
#3
Crescens
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Posted 07 April 2004 - 05:57 AM
| QUOTE |
| lol, da point of the debate forum is argument |
Some (like Serpharimon) don't understand the difference between a debate and an argument, so I'm going to clarify it. A debate is an argument that can be supported by fact and reason. An argument that is not a debate can be opinioinated, such as arguing whether the chicken or the egg came first. This incident was a while ago, but I thought I'd clarify things a bit.
------
Abortions. I'm generally against them, not for reason of being pro-life, but for reason of holding people responsible for their actions. If someone doesn't want to have a child, they shouldn't go around having unprotected sex. If they opt to be reactive rather than proactive, and irresponsibly know the preemptive measures that one can take to prevent pregnancy, then that's tough for them.
Democrats frequently bring up the issue of abortions in the event of when someone is raped. If someone is raped and did not willingly choose to have intercourse, then abortions should be FORCED, not encouraged. Above all, I believe that people should be held accountable for their actions.
Unfortunately, there are too many reactive hippies out there that just want to be dregs; doing drugs, having unprotected sex, and protesting against the defense of their right to protest. Despite the many contradictions and dreglike hypocrisies in the hippy morale, people for some reason feel obligated to listen to their BS. So my ideas are probably very idealistic, and will probably never become a reality.
God, I hate hippies.
Cspace - "Eagles may soar but turkeys don't get sucked into jet engines" says:
I bow to the supreme wrath of Lord Crescens.
I bow to the supreme wrath of Lord Crescens.
#5
Muler
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Posted 07 April 2004 - 03:49 PM
Abortions are alright in my book, but after 8 months its murder.
Crescens, what if someone gets raped and pregnated? Is it the victims fault for being unprotected?
P.S. Cres have you ever heard of JSA?
Crescens, what if someone gets raped and pregnated? Is it the victims fault for being unprotected?
P.S. Cres have you ever heard of JSA?
-The Infamous-
...Retired...Not returned
...Retired...Not returned
#6
Kowboy
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Posted 07 April 2004 - 05:26 PM
| QUOTE |
| Unfortunately, there are two many reactive hippies out there that just want to be dregs; doing drugs, having unprotected sex, and protesting against the defense of their right to protest. Despite the many contradictions and dreglike hypocrisies in the hippy morale, people for some reason feel obligated to listen to their BS. So my ideas are probably very idealistic, and will probably never become a reality. |
Yes, ironic that one. The hippies are protesting against war; the war, actually, is defending freedom, aka their right to protest.
| QUOTE |
| Crescens, what if someone gets raped and pregnated? Is it the victims fault for being unprotected? |
I believe Cres said that the victim should be forced to have an abortion.
I believe that it is their fault. If they have to have an abortion, it should be almost immediate to the "spawning" of the baby, after that, like Muler said, it would be murder.
God, Cres hates hippies.
#7
Res
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Posted 07 April 2004 - 06:18 PM
lol... Ok, On my forums, we had a whole debate on this... in MY opinion, I think it IS murder
I'll quote some of the highlights of out debate on this.
Quote Jeremy Sabine.
I'll quote some of the highlights of out debate on this.
Quote Jeremy Sabine.
| QUOTE |
| I say let 'em have at it...it's their conscience...if thats how you spell it... |
I think he has a point... if they do that... its their problem.
Quote someone else.
| QUOTE |
| Sick, Evil, Cruel, Heartless way of anything in the known and unknown universe. |
Quote ME.
| QUOTE |
| Though I am against it. I still kind of have to agree with SABINE. Even though they KNOW it is wrong, and they persist in doing it. that IS their problem. I classify it as deliberate murder.... :OFF TOPIC: I'm going to LAUGH when this thread is seen all over the internet. |
Quote last person.
| QUOTE |
| Okay, I know I'm a bit behind here, but my opinion: Abortion is in more ways than one, murder. Think about it like this: Not only is that fetus a LIVING HEART-BEATING HUMAN(!!!!), but you don't know what that baby will grow up to do. That baby you are aborting could very well be the man or woman who discovers the cure for cancer. Or something equally brilliant. Anyway. Yes. Now you know how I feel. |
And.. this kinda adds up on all the views. alot of people (including myself) think this is murder. But if the people persist in doing it.... That is their problem.
Quote Crescens
| QUOTE |
| I believe that people should be held accountable for their actions. |
My thoughts.. along with 3 other people.
MX
Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be "The One".
Born to bear and read to all the details of our ending
To write it down for all the world to see.
Such a heavy burden now to be "The One".
Born to bear and read to all the details of our ending
To write it down for all the world to see.
#8
Neraphym
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Posted 07 April 2004 - 07:09 PM
I'm sort of in agreement with muler, but as some babies develope differently, we should not go by months. I say anything after the baby has brain activity is murder. Before that, it has no more life than a small mass of skin cells. Also, forced abortion due to rape shouldn't be. You never can force anyone to do anything like that. Its just wrong. I think highly encouraged is better, but must be done immediately. And if the babies birth is harmful to the mother, I say it should be legal there.
Neraphym Archaeon
GWAMM
GWAMM
#9
Crescens
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Posted 07 April 2004 - 08:01 PM
| QUOTE (Muler @ up there) |
| Crescens, what if someone gets raped and pregnated? Is it the victims fault for being unprotected? |
Did you even read my post? I addressed this.
| QUOTE (Crescens @ way up there) |
| Democrats frequently bring up the issue of abortions in the event of when someone is raped. If someone is raped and did not willingly choose to have intercourse, then abortions should be FORCED, not encouraged. Above all, I believe that people should be held accountable for their actions. |
Cspace - "Eagles may soar but turkeys don't get sucked into jet engines" says:
I bow to the supreme wrath of Lord Crescens.
I bow to the supreme wrath of Lord Crescens.
#10
Killerconvic
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Posted 07 April 2004 - 08:20 PM
In yet another debate, Crescens and I have virtually the same point of view and opinion. Arr.
I feel that if the impregnated girl is under 18, then abortion should be forced as well. No way someone who isn't even financially dependant for themselves should be entrusted with another life.
I feel that if the impregnated girl is under 18, then abortion should be forced as well. No way someone who isn't even financially dependant for themselves should be entrusted with another life.
| QUOTE |
| This is significant because 49 million visits isn't an accomplishment whereas 50 million is |
^^More Maddox
Sam's gay
#11
obiwan22
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Posted 08 April 2004 - 02:36 AM
I basically agree with KC/Cres.
If a baby isn't having thoughts, moving, brain activity, whatever, then it is not a life, therefore it isn't murder. So, I think it's okay to get an abortion when the baby isn't thinking, however, only if the woman was raped. If the man and the woman had unprotected sex (but she wasn't raped or anything...), then she shouldn't be able to get an abortion, because it was her choice, she has to live by it.
My thoughts are very confused...I am tired, if someone doesn't understand this, I will sort the post out.
(it's like, 10:30pm my time)
If a baby isn't having thoughts, moving, brain activity, whatever, then it is not a life, therefore it isn't murder. So, I think it's okay to get an abortion when the baby isn't thinking, however, only if the woman was raped. If the man and the woman had unprotected sex (but she wasn't raped or anything...), then she shouldn't be able to get an abortion, because it was her choice, she has to live by it.
My thoughts are very confused...I am tired, if someone doesn't understand this, I will sort the post out.
(it's like, 10:30pm my time)
#12
Neraphym
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Posted 08 April 2004 - 02:46 AM
To KC & Cres:
Now that I think about it, who would want to keep a child that was concieved by rape? I feel stupid for ever considering that. It was just that forced sounded like such a hard word to use. Say something like mandatory next time, it sounds nicer.
To Obi:
It's now 10:45 our time.
What is your call if a man and woman have protected sex but something goes wrong and she gets pregnant. (I'd say something here about that anxiety you get right after, but I wont. Oh wait, just did. )
Now that I think about it, who would want to keep a child that was concieved by rape? I feel stupid for ever considering that. It was just that forced sounded like such a hard word to use. Say something like mandatory next time, it sounds nicer.
To Obi:
It's now 10:45 our time.
What is your call if a man and woman have protected sex but something goes wrong and she gets pregnant. (I'd say something here about that anxiety you get right after, but I wont. Oh wait, just did. )
Neraphym Archaeon
GWAMM
GWAMM
#14
Sproogle
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Posted 08 April 2004 - 02:44 PM
I shall repeat my argument..Held accountable for their actions!?! That is insane! So to punish the mother, you make her have the baby, which is then brought up in a family that does not want it...think of whats best for the child..
#15
MA-53
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Posted 09 April 2004 - 01:59 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
sorry, can't help laffing, i just find it HILARIOUS that MALES actually have the nerve to step in on something that is clearly up to FEMALES!!! I mean, i sincerely doubt that any self respecting male on this planet would even know what carrying a child, let alone giving birth to, is like!
I am of course pro choice. Gentlemen, i beleive it is not our place to be making decisions for women of this country (or the world) about wether or not to carry and give birth to a child, because, (unless you have something you'd like to tell us), YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE, AND SHOULD NOT GO BUTTING YOUR HEAD INTO THEIR BUISINESS!!!
And why would you want to? It's just another gray hair over something that doesn't affect us in any significant way. Let the lady decide, she knows better than all of you boys combined about carrying a baby.
Rape? Well then let her get an abortion if she wants it.
Accidental pregnancy? well then let her get an abortion if she wants it.
As for you people who say "it's killing an innocent human being!", well, because we only comprehend death in our complex cocnious minds, and define it as the cease of concious or subconcious activity, and losing the ability to perform bodily actions, it's not killing. The truth of the matter is that the fetus cannot live on it's own, cannot make it's own decisions, and all because it isn't capable of concious thought. Basically, it's just another organ inside the mother that it has to feed. It's totally dependant on the mother, like all human organs, and should be treated as such. Therefore, since organs don't think, neither can we assume that the fetus does. In this way, abortion does not fall under our definition of death.
(this is strictly my stance on this subject, i do not mean any offense to any party, nor do i mean to anger them. If they get angered, that's their own fault)
P.S.
Obi, didn't mean to steal your thoughts, i have that same stance, and kudos to you for knowing that!
sorry, can't help laffing, i just find it HILARIOUS that MALES actually have the nerve to step in on something that is clearly up to FEMALES!!! I mean, i sincerely doubt that any self respecting male on this planet would even know what carrying a child, let alone giving birth to, is like!
I am of course pro choice. Gentlemen, i beleive it is not our place to be making decisions for women of this country (or the world) about wether or not to carry and give birth to a child, because, (unless you have something you'd like to tell us), YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE, AND SHOULD NOT GO BUTTING YOUR HEAD INTO THEIR BUISINESS!!!
And why would you want to? It's just another gray hair over something that doesn't affect us in any significant way. Let the lady decide, she knows better than all of you boys combined about carrying a baby.
Rape? Well then let her get an abortion if she wants it.
Accidental pregnancy? well then let her get an abortion if she wants it.
As for you people who say "it's killing an innocent human being!", well, because we only comprehend death in our complex cocnious minds, and define it as the cease of concious or subconcious activity, and losing the ability to perform bodily actions, it's not killing. The truth of the matter is that the fetus cannot live on it's own, cannot make it's own decisions, and all because it isn't capable of concious thought. Basically, it's just another organ inside the mother that it has to feed. It's totally dependant on the mother, like all human organs, and should be treated as such. Therefore, since organs don't think, neither can we assume that the fetus does. In this way, abortion does not fall under our definition of death.
(this is strictly my stance on this subject, i do not mean any offense to any party, nor do i mean to anger them. If they get angered, that's their own fault)
P.S.
Obi, didn't mean to steal your thoughts, i have that same stance, and kudos to you for knowing that!
This post has been edited by mase windu: 09 April 2004 - 02:01 PM