[Crescens]

[Raktor]

I, personally, think abortion is murder.

The only time when I find it acceptable is when the child was conceived through rape. I could never face being raped and having a kid, who I'd look at my whole life, and it'd ask "Where's my daddy?".

I don't even care if it has an active brain or not, it's still preventing another life from existing, right? Lol, I'm quite a Greenie actually, I won't even kill a fly...

And yes Cres, a lot of peoples spelling and grammer is getting PATHETIC lately. C'mon, how hard is it to type you instead of 'u'..

[Sproogle]

[Crescens]

"Twisted and wrong?" I disagree. I think it's "twisted and wrong" to prevent a future life just because you were irresponsible and don't want to be held accountable for your actions. If you don't want to have a child, then DON'T GO AROUND HAVING UNPROTECTED SEX. It's THAT SIMPLE.

[Sproogle]

unfortunately, that will not happen. I am not saying I support that, but you cannot make the entire populous of the world stop having unprotected sex. And what about condom malfunctions? To punish the mother by making her raise a child she is not ready for is not right. Living in a condition where your parents do not love nor want you would be a horrible way for a child to grow up.

[MA-53]

Okay look, if a woman get's raped, how do you expect them to simply hold the guy down, and slip on a condom?? If she could do that, she'd just hold the guy down, and either 1: kill the stupid freak, or 2: call the cops. Think logic here!

and about my spelling, I'll watch more carefully when i'm writing a research paper, but this is supposed to be a fun place to hang out, not a place to constantly check for spelling and grammatical errors. And if it is, i'm out of here. Obviously you know what i'm talking about, and you know what i mean, so IT'S NOT A CRIME!

And yes, sproogle has the right Idea, and Bigbro has an excellent point. But this is a mutual argument, and has sides to it. Yes, you are preventing a life from existing, but i doubt that the person who raped the woman did so soley to increase the world's population. But, you do have to consider what sproogle is saying: it's not always her fault.

I still can't beleive that i'm even talking about this, because I will (hopefully) never know what it is like to carry and give birth to a child.

Make it a choice when it's rape (after the trial and DNA testing is complete) and if it was not rape, i think that (if we must bring it to a comprimise) then yes, make her keep it.

That's just a comprimise though, and i'm still against making a woman do that. Let me ask you this: how many people forgive their friends for doing something? or when they make a mistake? forgive and forget right? Well, by making a woman go through this, you are being quite brutal and unforgiving.

Think this over, "Are you living by your principles?"

[Crescens]

Yeah, I say it should be forced when someone is raped, but otherwise not allowed. As I stated before, and stuff.

[Lprince]

who invented abortion in the first place? i say that nobody should be aloud it in any circumstances, otherwise were just messing with nature.....i mean if we rape, then thats our sick nature!

[Sproogle]

I hearilty disagree with that. it would be unimagineable to make a mother live with a child that was forced upon her because of society? That is ludicrous.

[MA-53]

once again, hat's off to you sproogle...

Now, i'm not saying it should be FORCED when rape occurs, but simply allowed.

BTW, hey crescens... Remember how you were getting after me about spelling and grammer? What about lprince? "aloud" means "able to be heard" i beleive he was thinking "allowed" (permitted) and yet, you said nothing to him. What gives? Picking on me? Go after one, go after another. Otherwise it's favoritism, and in some cases, descrimination.

But still, as i have said before, and i'm not trying to be redundant, we will never know what it feels like to go through this, but let's try to imagine:

1. you are raped. horrible incident.
2. you are FORCED by society to carry this child
3. you give birth to this child.
---a. this could destroy your relationship with your spouse
---b. this child would feel out of place in society, having to live with the fact that his/her birth was "a mistake." could you live like that?
---c. perhaps you are financially challenged, you may not be ABLE to support this child. so now it's "my life is horrible. I live in bad conditions, and my birth was a mistake." Can you say "teen suicide"? In this way, the child would not live past the ripe old age of 16. So, if you have a child from rape, you might as well save yourself the trouble, and get an abortion, as for the reasons listed above, and the fact that the child would more than definitely commit suicide at a young age. What's the point??

are you satisfied now? or do you have another point that would surely destroy the social stability of every woman in the world?

[Crescens]

Pretty sure I've bashed Lprince for his spelling before, but ...

Lprince, your spelling is terrible. Please try to improve it a bit, okay?

[Neraphym]

i pride myslef wth my grammer and spelling

After much thought on this (and religious group discussion), I'm gonna have to change my opinions on this. Just because a baby cannot think for itself, doesn't mean it eventually won't. Killing something before it lives is just as bad as killing it while its alive. Either way, you are terminating a life, whether or not it is in existance yet.

Not only that, I disagree with the supreme court ruling on Roe vs. Wade. It said that an abortion is a women's right. 1. I hate womens rights now. The only reason there is still a movement is because they are after superiority (THIS IS A FACT). Back in the 70's, there was an amendment proposal called "The Equal Rights Amendment" (ERA). This amendment would put an end to all inequality in the constitution makeing everyone (religion, race, sex...) completely equal. Wanna know how it was killed? Women, yes, women shot it down. It would have opened them up to the draft. This meantonly one thing: they wanted all the advantages of being a man without any of the disadvantages. This is clearly superior, thus they seek superiority. That is why there are nazi femanists. Back onto the subject of roe vs. wade... I think that it is society's business because the women are trying to kill fututre members of our society. This IS a crime. The ONLY case of a women's right to have an abortion is when having the baby would kill the mother. I believe the child's right to life is far more important than a woman's "convinience." On the subject of rape. It would contradict my views of child's right to life supemecy to say that a woman could abort a raped child. This is a very touchy subject, but I'm going to have to say a child concieved by rape should have no less right than a child concieved intentionally. Let them live. As for financially insecure, I'd recommend having their child put up for adoption then. It may sound cruel, but at least its alive. When the child is older, then let it decide whether or not he'd rather live. (I personally don't think suicide is a crime.)

I'm trying not to sound too heartless, but hey. I also think people who bomb abortion clinics are just as bad as the people they kill.

[Sproogle]

So when men and women get their tubes tied, that means they are ending production of sperm and eggs, thusly terminating millions of possible lives?

[MA-53]

Well, 3 things...

1. consider it from their perspective; are you saying that if you were financially unstable, and you were raped, and had a child that every time you looked at, reminded you of a horrible scarring incident, and that you had to support, that you'd have a good time? No! It would make her life miserable. Now, harrasment can be a crime, so basically, it's a crime to have that child, because it indirectly affects your mental stability, and harrasses you.

2. if it's a crime to end a life, it must be a crime to drink mountain dew, as the chemicals inside of it lower the sperm count in a male.

3. and from the point that women are fighting for superiority, yes, they are very very hippocritical. but, it's not like men haven't been perfect little angels in history. you know, it seems that you make these blind assumptions about the opposite sex without any consideration at all about what you are like, and what your sex has done, when you once again, DON'T KNOW A GOD DARNED THING ABOUT IT!

So, based on what you're saying, it's a crime not to have sex at some point in your life, because you aren't putting forth the possible lives that you could have.

So, currently, when you look at it, you're fighting to make rape legal, even MANDITORY in some circumstances. Just go and ask your girlfriend about it or something. What you are doing is being very one sided. You sit and surround yourself with people who agree with you, and not even paying one shred of attention to what the other people are saying. You are fighting for superiority of males, and then are yourself, and i quote "an evil nazi male."

Look at where this is going. Can you see what's going to happen? You seem so bent on changing the world to fit your perspective, that you don't pay attention to what is going to happen.

How would you like it (this is a dumb question, males probably wouldn't mind) if the government found out that you were 45 years old, and hadn't reproduced? Then they'd just send some girl to come and make you. That wouldn't be ethical, especially in your religious groups.

And it seems to me that you and your religious groups are turning the world to shape what they deem perfect and are therefore "evil nazi religious groups."

So, there.

[Sproogle]

Bravo. *clap* *clap*