[Cspace]

Many rumors have been going around regarding what happened with the Rebels, so I will give everyone an explanation in order:

- A Gunblader helped form the Rebels because there was talk that it would start up on its own and that it could potentially become a possible threat. We got in at the beginning because of this, and the name of the one who assisted was Slipknut.

- Slipknut's role was to only provide surveillance. We would know of plans before they happened basically. Talk of forum raids, war (which would continue indefinitely), hacking, and other methods of harming us was forwarded to us. No action was required, we were able to defend ourselves if anything were to happen.

- The few SeeDs who went to their boards and caused problems were told to stop causing them problems.

- Slipknut, through us, was planning on helping their clan. His role was to help promote them and possibly give them a name which could give us the ability to directly help them as well if they change. He did this and helped enormously, and their clan's member count exploded from the combined effort of him and a few other Rebels (from what I know). SeeD's job would be to provide pressure to give their clan another goal, Slip's was to allow us to defend against a real attack such as a hacking situation.

- Slipknut became the leader of their clan in Green's absence.

- From talk of a declaration of war in the near future, we declared that there would be no war to force them to change. If they succeeded they would end because they would have no lasting purpose, if we won a war they would just continue, and if we denied them the ability to attack us we are forcing them to go to a clan that would welcome war. If they trusted us and changed their goals they would have thrived as was said. We never did anything to Green or their members, and even though we offered to help and end the conflict our attempts were denied. Green was unfortunately too set on war and the clan was not flexible enough to go on, which is not what we expected.

- From a few pressures their clan split on its own. Slip had some go with him and others caused trouble, or at least this is what I am told. The clan fell apart and unfortunately there was nothing else Slip could have done, so instead of allowing warring factions of the same clan to exist he closed it.

- We offered to bring back their clan because this was not intended. We welcomed members and offered many times to try to help reform it. This was more than possible but it was turned down.

Throughout the whole ordeal our only intentions were to allow the Rebels to continue (Slip would have most likely left once they changed so they could go on). We told Green that we had spies in unexpected positions, we told SeeD our intentions, we just could not explain who or how we were doing this because it would create problems. Through this we could have seriously helped them and I swear that the intention of all our actions was to allow the Rebels to go on and SeeD to be able to pursue its own goals.

I know that there will be those who think that we tried to bring them down, but due to Slip's position he could have just done it right when there was a potential threat. He did not, he continued to promote them and only provided information which was required for our safety. We could have gone to war and had an enormous tactical advantage as well as our own strengths. We realized that Green was not our enemy, we do not wish to have "enemies" that are not rulebreakers. If a clan wants war we could give it to them, but when a clan wants to go past that we must do something else because war is nothing at that point. We therefore tried to change their goals, which would benefit everyone involved in this.

Our own terms of victory are if we could allow Green's clan to succeed, to end the hostilities between him and SeeD, and to allow SeeD to continue to pursue its goals. We provided the necessary pressure to allow this to happen but failed because they broke into factions. Then we offered to rebuild them, which was refused.

I really hate keeping things from SeeD and it is a personal sacrifice when the leadership must take action without anyone's knowledge. We do not lie, it is just that we sometimes cannot mention certain things when they happen for obvious reasons. As you can see in this we were in the greatest possible situation to help them and offered well over 20 times probably, but every time was turned down. We were helping them all along but the pressure to end this unfortunately broke their clan, and we are still willing to rebuild it if they wish.

I fear that this would start the conflict again, I was going to say this later when everything would be safe. However I was placed in a situation where if I did not say this now, someone else would have said it tonight. I promise that this is 100% true, I know that many probably do not believe me because Gunblade is very secretive, but we really mean the best and I just hope that everyone understands that... This is the complete truth of what happened and if I remember something that was left out I will inform everyone.

I apologize for those who may have been hurt unintentionally...

[Raktor]

Nothing is safe now. Base and GM8 are 'rampaging', they took over SeeDchat etc....

Then a gunblader (Won't mention here) flaming a member of SeeD....

[Goto]

I'm not too surprised, but I'm not too disappointed either. As always I wish the leaders had been clearer and opted for honesty rather than secrecy, but that wouldn't have gone done well when implemented with your plan. I still think there may have been better ways to manage the "rebel threat", but I'm not angry or distrustful because of what you've done. You were simply trying to do whats best for SeeD, as you always do.

Style, for someone who was never a "SeeD" and was only here to spy on us for various clans, you spend a lot of time here posting on inconsequential things. I think perhaps you should be careful of what you say, as when you decide to come back again next week people might not be as forgiving.

[Ferret Overlord]

[Baseballl]

Nobody said the Rebels were dead

This post has been edited by Baseballl: 11 July 2004 - 06:47 AM

[Unrealblight]

[Styledragon1]

Disbanded but not dead.....

[Cspace]

I am sorry to see you leave, but all members are free to leave if SeeD is not the place for them. We try our best to make SeeD enjoyable but sometimes members take things too far. Part of giving power to the members was trying to allow them to solve problems without an admin intervening with a ban or other action unless necessary. The clan is in everyone's hands to the same extent as when we only had five members, nothing has changed in that respect, we have never faced a major reformation since that time. We have evolved, but the same rights apply to every member.

The leaders are here to allow the clan to function on its own and unhindered to the best possible extent. When there is a threat we try to end it without starting a conflict, that is what Gunblade is for. Gunblade allows the clan to function independently while outside situations do not get through a shell that we try to provide. Outside situations do hurt clans more than many would expect, many clans fall because of pressure from larger or intimidating clans. If SeeD were to possibly go to war for competition that is fine, but Gunblade and the leaders are here to stop truly harmful situations from hurting the clan or its members. This was one of those situations. There are others that are not commonly known. We have been extremely successful with preventing clan-to-clan conflicts, however solving internal situations is not completely up to the leaders because it is not entirely in our scope.

We try to assist the clan and give it a general direction. We also put time and money into allowing it to even exist. That is all we try to do, throughout SeeD's existence our goal was to allow SeeD to be capable of functioning on its own while being an enjoyable community to be a part of. Part of it was also not trying to exclude members. It takes about 20 seconds to ban a member, but it takes sometimes hours to write the massive posts attempting to actually end conflicts. I am just saying that the members should take the abilities given to them, take the clan by the horns, and take it in an enjoyable direction while being friendly toward others. We try to allow this, and I am saying it again, it is your clan. SeeD is a clan based on the members. What everyone wants happens unless it could cause actual problems. SeeD has been engineered by the members throughout our existence, almost every feature was either conceived by our members or affected by them.

It obviously cannot appeal to everyone however, and sad as it may be, everyone is free to leave if they don't enjoy what we try to provide. I am just asking that members please respect one another and we will not have to face these situations. Please, you are hurting everyone by hurting one. I just ask that everyone treats one another as a neighbor at least, at least an aquaintance. We don't need to be enemies. If you can be friendly toward others I can guarantee that SeeD will be much better to you in return and you will gain much more, both personally and in terms of what we can provide.

I hate repeating myself but I cannot stress this enough...

[Styledragon1]

Wonder how Green will react to slipknut betraying him....

[Star Jedi]

Basically, SeeD has tried to help the Rebels. We never meant any threat to them. It seems Slipknut was just there for SeeDs protection: If they were planning to attack us at an event (such as in the wild), or anything that could harm SeeD, we could take action quickly.

No harm was ever meant to them, and actually SeeD was trying to help them. Though, as the rebel clan had several conflicts and arguments, it split up. So, I guess the best thing Slip could do was end it, like a sickened dog who needs to be put to sleep before more pain would arise. After the break-up of the clan, SeeD still offered to help TRR, but to no avail.

It never was intended for the Rebels to end this way. But we're always here to help them if they need it...

And Style, I'm sorry you want to leave. But hopefully you'll be fine Real life. You were a funny guy to talk too, so I hate to see you leave. But if that is what you wish, I cannot stop you. Best luck, Snakey

[Styledragon1]

I dont know whats wrong with you star you forgive me yet I betrayed you?As I have many times before....I have betrayed myself as I have the clan but I also did betray my cousin who infact led the other clan and I told him about SeeD when I joined.....He was the one that ordered me to do it and seeing as blood is thicker then water I was also new to rs but the rebels I knew what I was doing you forgive me I do not know why....As I do not know why Benidict arnold was forgiven....

[Dart060]

I take back my resignation to leave, I'm sorry, i am very confused and don't know where the right place is for me.

[amazonqueen]

hmm so style was a rebel? lol weird..

anyways i thinkt his is a good thing and im proud of cspace for telling us what happened ty cspace.

[Bodom]

style y dnt u ask him ur already great friends... and have fun with the "rebels" maybe they'll teach you to type so its readable.

This post has been edited by Echlius: 11 July 2004 - 07:12 AM

[Raktor]

Lol, style is a rebel, won't be for much longer, since he seems to be taking the suicidal attention seeking path.