[Dark Alex666]

So?

1. They (not sure how Im gonna type this, so that the fact Im not american so I say "they") are humans too so they should be granted every right hetros got.

2. USA is said to be the perfect land, we all know that aint true and this is a little proof.

3. Seperation of Church And State: The government has used the arguement that the Bible states that homosexuality is frowned upon and that the word "marriage" is a holy word and should be inforced as such. This, however, is completely lawfully wrong to bring up because of the Seperation of the Church from the State...any other time, this would be frowned upon, but because the government wanted to get something acomplished its okay for them to bring the Bible in? I think not...

4. Declaration of Independance: This document states that all people are equal, and that we all have 3 unalienable rights: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Now, we allow homesexual's life and liberty, but by passing a law that states that they cannot be wed, completely interferes with this documents writtings.

5. Constitution: This is not of as much importance as the previous two, but the American Constitution states that all people have the freedom of religion correct? Well if the government wants to play the Bible "card", then we can also use the Atheist "card". Not all people believe in the scriptures of the Bible, and therefore do not follow its code, and cannot be made to. So saying that it is against the will of God is not correct because not all people believe in such things.


Ok, The 3, 4 and 5 I havent written. Took it from another site were same debate were. LordOfGMS wrote 3, 4 and 5. Thanks to him, I copy his idea

This post has been edited by Dark Alex666: 09 April 2005 - 08:19 AM

[Mobster101]

homosexuality is selfishness...its: "i'm gonna do what makes me happy no matter what!" But, if you don't want our contry to go by the bible we'll go ahead and start hating othersand killing countless amountsof people because we just don't like em.....

[Dark Alex666]

wdf... they dont do that...

[Phieta]

homosexuality is selfishness...its: "i'm gonna do what makes me happy no matter what!"    But, if you don't want our contry to go by the bible we'll go ahead and start hating othersand killing countless amountsof people because we just don't like em.....

Newsflash: American government has never been based upon religion. Three of the ten commandments (You shall not kill, steal, or bear false witness) have made it into the law, and I don't think you can really say those are there just because of Christianity. In addition, saying homosexuality is selfishness is like saying black people are selfish because, hey, they're black. It just makes no sense.

Common arguments against gay marraige:

"The Bible says it's wrong." True, but that was in the Old Testament, which also says slavery is perfectly fine. To quote a debater from my Close-Up trip to Washington: "I really wish the fundamentalist Christians would actually care about Christ's teachings." Besides, religious and legal marraiges are two different things. I could be married at the church, but it wouldn't necessarily be legally recognized. On the other hand, I could be married by a Justice of the Peace and the church wouldn't recognize it.

"Gays can't raise children." Gay couples can't reproduce, but neither can male-female couples if one partner is sterile -- yet they're still allowed to be married. And I know several married couples who have no children and plan not to. Should they be married if they've chosen not to have kids? (Oh, and gays can raise children. Adoption, for instance.

"They already have the right to marry." No they don't. Sure, they can marry someone of the opposite sex -- but a gay's right to marry someone they don't love is not the same as my right to marry someone I do love.

"So what? They can get a civil union. It's the same thing." Uh, no it's not. There are several rights (hospital visitation et al) that married couples get that are denied to non-married couples. These rights are off-limits to gay couples who cannot marry.

"It would ruin traditional marraige!" Are you saying you'll get a divorce if gay marraige is legalized? Didn't think so. There are plenty of racists in the US; do you see them breaking up their marriage because of interracial or black couples? No.

I have several gay friends and I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to marry. Please explain this to me.

[Mobster101]

NO, i say that homosexuality is selfishness because they aren't born a homo. They choose to do it. Black people are born black they had no say it what soever. And please don't turn this into a racial discussion....*rolls eyes*

[Crescens]

Be this a mechanistic explanation of humanity and society as it may, it's an explanation.

The overall purpose of having marriages at all and people not just sleeping with as many people as they can to increase odds of gene pass-on is to allow multi-parental raising of a child. The raising of a child generally takes more than one parent or guardian to be accomplished successfully. Because homo sapiens has two sexes, xx and xy, it is not possible for two people of the same gender to produce a child.

Because homosexual relationships do not produce children, promoting them as an alternative to heterosexual ones will reduce birth rates, first gradually then dramatically, The promotion of alternatives to reproduction is the first step toward the extinction of the species.

Lifting the gay marriage ban will lift the paradigm that such a thing is "unacceptable," and cause it to happen more often. Whether homosexuality is caused or simply influenced by genetics is still under debate. Regardless, the acceptance of such a trait, whether by genetic or societal means, will increase the likelihood of that trait. As the likelihood of that trait increases, the chance of the survival of homo sapiens wanes.

As for the involvement of Christianity and religion in general (Islamic belief goes against gay marriage as well), such religions served to create order in the Dark Ages. However, I agree that their use as an explanation for things like this in modern times goes far beyond their need.

[Dark Alex666]

Oh really? do you think I choose to be bisexual? No I didnt. Its how I was born. A guy at my school found out he was gay when he were 5. He didnt understand why he liked boys and not girls.

Ive also talked to seeds which are bisexual but are afraid to admit it because they are born bisexual, gay whatever

[Fabolous]

I agree with mobsters but some people who are homosexually are born that way. It means that the mother of a gay child has resitance to male Y chromosome but that is just a theory.

I think that all this "gay" things exists only due to the effects of outside societal or developmental influences on the individual. Also if your arnt a Christian, Islamic, Judaism and others are more prone to support gay rights movements.

[Crescens]

Don't think it has much of anything to do with the sex chromosomes. However, there is evidence in brain tumor suggesting that homosexuality may be linked to purely anatomical causes. The Discovery Channel once did a documentary showing some evidence that homosexual penguins had slightly different brain anatomy than regular penguins.

[Spikeout]

gay rights ban is one reason USA's reputation is becoming stupid.

1. this is said to be a free country
2. it was an american president who said all men are created equal. now this is just contracting that...
3. law shudnt be based on religion it shud

[©allum]

homosexuality is selfishness...its: "i'm gonna do what makes me happy no matter what!"    But, if you don't want our contry to go by the bible we'll go ahead and start hating othersand killing countless amountsof people because we just don't like em.....

"Killing in the name of..."

[ticktockclok]

Crusades, lol.

[Mobster101]

gay rights ban is one reason USA's reputation is becoming stupid.

1. this is said to be a free country
2. it was an american president who said all men are created equal. now this is just contracting that...
3. law shudnt be based on religion it shud

Leftyy, the crusades were not "bible based" they were catholic and wrong....
Dude, i can't control the goverment, they say its a free country and that ok with you when if your rasist the goverment lets kkk kill blacks...
And every 5 year old acks gay, they can't deside yet, so that has no point. And even if your born liking guys instead of(or as much as) girls, you still chose to live the gay r bi lifestyle

[Phieta]

NO, i say that homosexuality is selfishness because they aren't born a homo. They choose to do it. Black people are born black they had no say it what soever. And please don't turn this into a racial discussion....*rolls eyes*

Never once have I heard a homo/bisexual say that they're attracted to their own sex by choice. As one person put it, "It's not exactly like I just woke up one day and said, 'You know what, I really like c*ck.'"

And I wasn't trying to make this a racial discussion -- it was just an example.

Be this a mechanistic explanation of humanity and society as it may, it's an explanation.

The overall purpose of having marriages at all and people not just sleeping with as many people as they can to increase odds of gene pass-on is to allow multi-parental raising of a child. The raising of a child generally takes more than one parent or guardian to be accomplished successfully. Because homo sapiens has two sexes, xx and xy, it is not possible for two people of the same gender to produce a child.

No argument there.

Because homosexual relationships do not produce children, promoting them as an alternative to heterosexual ones will reduce birth rates, first gradually then dramatically, The promotion of alternatives to reproduction is the first step toward the extinction of the species.

Lifting the gay marriage ban will lift the paradigm that such a thing is "unacceptable," and cause it to happen more often. Whether homosexuality is caused or simply influenced by genetics is still under debate. Regardless, the acceptance of such a trait, whether by genetic or societal means, will increase the likelihood of that trait. As the likelihood of that trait increases, the chance of the survival of homo sapiens wanes.

Homosexuality isn't exactly a new thing, it's just that people are becoming more accepting of it. And think about this: the human population has about doubled in the last 50 or so years. We're not exactly in a crisis here.

Even if we were faced with impending doom due to lack of heterosexuals, I'd like to think humanity would be smart enough to start having "straight sex" (hell, even test tube babies) in order to reproduce.

Ive also talked to seeds which are bisexual but are afraid to admit it because they are born bisexual, gay whatever

I know at least one who you're referring to.

Don't think it has much of anything to do with the sex chromosomes. However, there is evidence in brain tumor suggesting that homosexuality may be linked to purely anatomical causes. The Discovery Channel once did a documentary showing some evidence that homosexual penguins had slightly different brain anatomy than regular penguins.

There are other things such as hormonal imbalance... but that's exactly the point. If it's something they cannot control, why should they be punished for it?

homosexuality is selfishness...its: "i'm gonna do what makes me happy no matter what!"    But, if you don't want our contry to go by the bible we'll go ahead and start hating othersand killing countless amountsof people because we just don't like em.....

"Killing in the name of..."

I wasn't going to comment on that. Thanks for doing it instead

Leftyy, the crusades were not "bible based" they were catholic and wrong....

Catholicism is a sect of Christianity.

Dude, i can't control the goverment, they say its a free country and that ok with you when if your rasist the goverment lets kkk kill blacks... 

The idea behind a free country is that you can do whatever you want so long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of others.

And even if your born liking guys instead of(or as much as) girls, you still chose to live the gay r bi lifestyle

I suppose that's true. But for the ones who choose not to live the lifestyle, isn't that mostly due to fear of being persecuted for it?

[©allum]

Homosexuals should be allowed to marry each other, they are doing nothing wrong. Loving another person is not a crime.

And Mobster, Crusades were set up to 'reclaim the Holy Land from the Heathens'. I don't know about you, but I always thought Catholics were christians, and crusades were killing people because you don't like them...