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3 Branches 3 Branches

#1 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Spikeout {lang:icon}

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 11:44 PM

Well I got this idea when I was reading a book. If you don't like it, well at least I got the idea off of my mind. I don't know if I can copy this idea but here it goes,


Judicial Branch

The Judicial Branch are made up of nine judges. One of them is the lead judge. The President (Cspace) nominates the nine judges. The judges can veto(reject) or aprove any of the President's ideas of new laws. When SeeD is in a very bad situation or a SeeD(s) member got hacked/scammed of more than 100k money or items worth the situation goes to the Judicial Branch. They find a guy to get or kill the guy in wild. The Judicial can also make bills, but the President and Legislative at least 2/3 of the Legislative Branch members have to aprove to make this bill. (Still adding more info)



Legislative

The Legislative Branch is made up of Senates and Representatives. Representatives are voted by the SeeD Garden. The Senates are the Garden Leaders. They decide if we go to war or not. The Legislative makes new laws. To have equal power with the three branches the President (Cspace) and at least 2/3 or the judicial has to aprove of this new law. (Still adding more info)


Executive

The Executive Branch is the Leader/Creator of SeeD. He thinks of new laws but the Legislative and Judicial must aprove of this new rule. He can also sign treaties with other clans. When SeeD goes to war he must go to the Legislative Branch to see if they aprove of this. He can call the Legislative into an important meeting anytime. The Executive has a cabinet(not the cabinet where you put things in). This includes the Special Ops, Spies, Law Enforcers, SeeD Army, and Embassadors. He nominates people- Judges, knights, etc. (Adding more info)


Tell me what you like and tell me what you don't like so I can make changes.


-Spikeout



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#2 {lang:macro__useroffline}   CongressJon {lang:icon}

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 12:38 AM

I really think that this is a GREAT idea! I think it really gives the members of SeeD (well, at least the very good ones) a little more freedom and decision. I really say go for it!

On the other hand...

It is kind of like taking away power from Cspace.... sort of.

Anyway, I think this is good enough to be pinned, can you do it Baseballl or any other super mod?
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#3 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Spikeout {lang:icon}

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 01:19 AM

thank hyperfried



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#4 {lang:macro__useroffline}   ohtaren {lang:icon}

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 02:24 AM

I love this idea. Its pretty much just the US government system with the words seed, cspace and garden thrown in the mix lol. Theres a lot of good stuff thats missing. I can help you improve what you have here and fix some of the probloms (I just got a 95% on my US civics exam).

for instance, is the legislative branch unicamiral (england) or bicamiral (US) (i.e. one legeslative body or two). if its bicamiral, is there an uper house and a lower house or not. is there and formal document (i.e. a constitution) or not. If so what is the amendment procces. are all laws 2/3 (thats pretty tuff) or are some simple majority like a motion or joint resolution and some 2/3 or even 3/4.

what about executive departments. I think that could be a realy cool idea. should there be an optional tax. the list goes on. I'm not entirely sure that I stand behind such a drastic change in seed organization, but I'd be happy to help you better organize your thoughts and improve upon what you have here. I see you in game alot, don't hesitate to pm me about this. grnwink.gif

-ohtaren
Anar caluva tielyanna
(may the sun light your path)
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#5 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Spikeout {lang:icon}

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 02:26 AM

QUOTE (ohtaren @ May 13 2003, 09:24 PM)
I love this idea. Its pretty much just the US government system with the words seed, cspace and garden thrown in the mix lol. Theres a lot of good stuff thats missing. I can help you improve what you have here and fix some of the probloms (I just got a 95% on my US civics exam).

for instance, is the legislative branch unicamiral (england) or bicamiral (US) (i.e. one legeslative body or two). if its bicamiral, is there an uper house and a lower house or not. is there and formal document (i.e. a constitution) or not. If so what is the amendment procces. are all laws 2/3 (thats pretty tuff) or are some simple majority like a motion or joint resolution and some 2/3 or even 3/4.

what about executive departments. I think that could be a realy cool idea. should there be an optional tax. the list goes on. I'm not entirely sure that I stand behind such a drastic change in seed organization, but I'd be happy to help you better organize your thoughts and improve upon what you have here. I see you in game alot, don't hesitate to pm me about this. grnwink.gif

-ohtaren

teach me how to be smart lol



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#6 {lang:macro__useroffline}   ohtaren {lang:icon}

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 02:28 AM

ok, first you read alot... then you talk to my academic coach for about 3 hours everyday on useless things... (jk)

no, i just realy like poly sci

-ohtaren
Anar caluva tielyanna
(may the sun light your path)
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#7 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Spikeout {lang:icon}

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 02:39 AM

Listens to ohtaren... 5 mins later ZzzzZZzzZZzzz jk



ok ill read lol



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#8 {lang:macro__useroffline}   puzz {lang:icon}

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 03:25 AM

SWEET IDEA
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Seed Name:Red falco
Darkstrom name:Puzas
Race:Grome
Class:Jester
Hometown:Frionia

Cloths:
Jester outfit +30 hp
Jester staff (power to make people laugh)
UC:4
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#9 {lang:macro__useroffline}   CongressJon {lang:icon}

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 12:01 PM

Well, with ohtaren's ideas, I did a little thinking...

I believe we want the legislative branch to be unicamiral, to make it a bit simpler. (Remember, not everyone's as smart as you, even if I do get straight A's and am in all special programs, lol) And I think we should stick with 2/3, just my opinion though.

The Judicial Branch, the way I see it, is really a Bounty Hunter kind of thing, where they hunt the serious scammers and hackers. Though they can make laws too... But anyway, I think there should be more to the Judicial branch than catching hackers and scammers. I really think that the Judicial Branch could even be tied to *whispers* Gunblade or possibly even another undercover organazation that we figure out.

I think with the Executive Branch, we should keep it fairly simple, but we can have like, the Leader's cabinet. This includes ranks like, foreign relations director, Supreme War Commander, and things like that, probably held by people such as Superchao, Original Max, and Baseballl. The Leader pretty much tells these people what to do.The Foreign Relations director (duh) handles most to all of the "situations" and alliences with other clans, and the Supreme War Commander takes orders from Cspace, and then commands all armies to do the same in the event of war.

That's my ideas about it as of now. and you know what, this is sooo good, I'm reporting it to Cspace. biglaugh.gif
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#10 {lang:macro__useroffline}   ohtaren {lang:icon}

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 01:35 PM

yeah, I dissagree slightly from hyperfried. things like gunblade should deffinatly go into the executive branch. And the executive should deffinatly be the biggest and have the most stuff in it. I think it would be cool to expand from just having a 'forign policy director' to having a diplomatic corps. or having an entire department of smithing. this could be a little bit like guilds/specialist groups. but instead they could be the overseers/organizers or the specialist groups.

As it is now, I'm not seeing a whole lot of use for the legislative branch. I mean how many laws can be made in an online clan. I have a feeling that there will be a huge explosion of laws in the first month or so and then everything that should be said has been said and nothing will come out of it after that. We might as well have a weekend long constitutional convention and get it all over with at once.

Next, how will we stop political parties from forming in a clan so big as SeeD. I think that if we have two or three factions that SeeD could be torn apart. *paints one side of his face blue and the other red then gets shot by snipers from both sides* (sorry just a US politics joke, you might be a bit confused it your form estonia)

any ways, there are a few flaws like the two that I mentioned that I believe can be fixed if they are discussed and thought about a little more.

-ohtaren
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(may the sun light your path)
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#11 {lang:macro__useroffline}   CongressJon {lang:icon}

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 08:22 PM

Well, what I think we could do for one of the things you mentioned is change the Legislative Branch a little. Instead of allowing them to make new laws, we could allow them to dream up new ideas for the clan, then to be approved by 2/3 of the Judicial... etc.


And for the "issues", well as soon as Cspace checks this out, I believe he'll have something to say grnwink.gif

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#12 {lang:macro__useroffline}   ohtaren {lang:icon}

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Posted 14 May 2003 - 09:06 PM

I'd love for cspaces inputs on what we have been discussing here. my overall feeling is that this is to drastic a change to be made all at once or even at all.I like disscussing it philosophicly and I think it would be great if some of this got put into practice but I think that this would take alot of dedication and time on the members.

one idea that I would like to explore a little more is the idea of departments that have been brought up a few times (mostly by me) I did some thinking on this and I think that this could go hand in hand with X Zolon's guilds idea. departments could be made up of five or so people each wich is lead by as secretary (or something cooler sounding if that is desired) they could be the control mecanisim for the guilds and they delegate work. all the secretaries together could make up an advisory cabinate for cspace so that SeeD is more managable.

I think it would also be cool if each department/guild (this also can go with X Zolon's Idea) had their own web page with a list of needed jobs and news. We could put out an advertisment for web masters in SeeD so that cspace isn't over loaded. I htikn this would be cool and could help to better organize the different professions in SeeD.

-ohtaren
Anar caluva tielyanna
(may the sun light your path)
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#13 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Spikeout {lang:icon}

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Posted 15 May 2003 - 01:50 AM

what you think cspace?



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#14 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Dragonman {lang:icon}

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Posted 16 May 2003 - 02:33 AM

Great idea Spikeout. thumb.gif You put a lot of thought into this. This is pretty much a SeeD Government. Yet it might get too complicated for many SeeDs. Like Hyperfried said, I think you'll have to keep it has simple as you can so that everyone will be able to understand and support your great idea. grnwink.gif
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#15 {lang:macro__useroffline}   X Zolon {lang:icon}

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Posted 16 May 2003 - 03:59 AM

First of all, i would just like to say, good job to spikeout, because he did put work into this.

HOWEVER

This is just my council idea but split into three parts. i do not see why hyper is so wowed by this. is it a lot of typing you like? why arent you saying the legislative and judicial members might get too much power? you see, with my council idea, you could vote theem outta the council or cspace could kick them off. And the executive is cool im cool with that. but geez. time to start analyzing.

QUOTE
The Judicial Branch are made up of nine judges. One of them is the lead judge. The President (Cspace) nominates the nine judges.

Council: BAsically the exact thing i said. Cspace is teh head of council, and votes or nominates or SeeDs in.

QUOTE
The judges can veto(reject) or aprove any of the President's ideas of new laws.

Pretty much what i said... but backwards. you see, with council, cspace is the head, and can choose whether or not things happen. now you are giving these guys WAY too much power! they get to choose things over cspace? so lets say, i decide to get my other 5 judges, and pass a law that everyone must give the generals full rune when they join. and we pass it. cspace cannot say no, and seed would fall apart (that was a terrible example, i would never do that sad.gif) council rules over this one fellas. how come hyperfired isnt complaining about too much power now? Cspace doesnt have any rule in this one!

QUOTE
The Judicial can also make bills, but the President and Legislative at least 2/3 of the Legislative Branch members have to aprove to make this bill.


Well, this is pretty much what i said, however it's cspace who gets the final say. hey, it's his caln. your taking away all the power from the guy.

QUOTE
Representatives are voted by the SeeD Garden. The Senates are the Garden Leaders.

this is what the council is made up of. i said this. now, please. why didnt you guys like the council as much as this? IT'S ALMOST THE SAME! EXCEPT THIS WAY JUDDGES HAVE TOO MUCH POWER! the members of council were the leaders and sub leaders of the gardens.

QUOTE
The Executive Branch is the Leader/Creator of SeeD. He thinks of new laws but the Legislative and Judicial must aprove of this new rule. He can also sign treaties with other clans. When SeeD goes to war he must go to the Legislative Branch to see if they aprove of this.


BAsically, again, taking the power from cspace. i feel sorry for him if he accepts. he only gets to do stuff if everyone else says yes sad.gif so, we get into a war. the next day, we go up to the leaader, and say, sorry, i cant fight, the legislative branch told me so. and then the leader laughs and says you have no power over you clan anymore!


There, it just took someboddy with enough guts to analyze this. now please. can you expleain why this is better than my council? why dont we use my council and split it into 3 branches? it's acctually better that way because cspace keeps all his power and can kcick out poeple who are abusing it. and hyper, HOW COME YOU COULDNT UNDERSTAND THAT? I TOLD YOU AT LEAST 3 TIMES...

Not meaning to really shoot down your idea spike, im just very offended that i came up with an equal idea and people shot it down, then when another idea of teh same thing (that REALLY steals cspaces power) comes up, everyone swears it is an act of god and must worship it. now please, look back at my council, make some comparisons, and please, really analyze each. because some poeple are being narrowminded. im not saying i dont come up with good ideas, or you spike, im just offended.

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