[Star Jedi]

I dont want them to change it, i wanna see them try to change it for fun.

All a topic there would do is make members flame each other. That's not needed for GoH, and I'd like to avoid it. SeeD is an ally of GoH now, and you should be a good diplomat.

Nate, you don't have to look at this forum if it bothers you so much.

[tom/halo/emily]

i dont want any 1 to change anything in other peoples clans when we need to sort out problems in our own.

[Neilslayer91]

You guys are ticking me off only nice SeeD I've met is Star Jedi.
Everyone else your all annoying little people that come in here and flame our
good leader dokimos. Let me ask, what has he done to you?

[dokimos0rg]

If I got to know Guardians of Honor Clan I probably would find their values better than that of Nate who is a fool who lacks honor.

I think the GOH Clan should realize how badly they are being represented by Nate who goes on like a buffoon.

Consequentially, I am not a power monger nor overlord, which guys like Nate cannot seem to comprehend. It is not necessary to have overlords to do clanning in Runescape. We do by-example leadership here.

I receive extremes of condemnation and commendation from others. I am not put off by the condemnations nor flattered into pride by the commendations.

I am but a United Freedom Fighter.

I am not impressed by those who suck up to leaders. I exhort such players to beware of such behavior as that leads to them being taken into slave rules by the overlords.

Clan overlords love to feed off that and manipulate their clan followers by such worship, feigned or otherwise, only to use it for their own advantage. I find it sickening. UFFs should not imitate such behavior.

Since leadership is come to in UFF by setting leadership example and not come to by lordship, sucking up to the boss has no place here. In UFF we have no bosses.

If Nate would use the brain he was given long enough, he would understand all this. Most likely, though, he will keep ranting on like a fool thinking he is funny or entertaining in some way.

What Nate actually shows himself here in the UFForia is as is like as if he said to us, "Hi, I'm Nate! I'm a
member of an exclusive club where only the gay players like me are invited? I think I'm cool! Be like me!"

LOL!

Finally, UFFs, be free and be yourselves. But, honestly, folks, would you really want to be like Nate instead of the free players you are? Does he make his clan seem like a cool bunch of players? Maybe one day Nate will wake up, but I wouldn't count on it being soon.

This post has been edited by dokimos0rg: 10 June 2006 - 11:34 PM

[©allum]

What Nate actually shows himself here in the UFForia is as is like as if he said to us, "Hi, I'm Nate! I'm a
member of an exclusive club where only the gay players like me are invited? I think I'm cool! Be like me!"

LOL!

Grade A flamebait.

[Darkness]

Let me ask, what has he done to you?

Nate who is a fool who lacks honor.

Nate who goes on like a buffoon.

And you wonder -why- we don't like him? Dokimos, you may be insulting people with less extreme words, saying things like 'buffoon' and 'overlord' or whatever cruddy junk you use nowadays, but you're still borderline flaming. And your talk about him needing to use his brain? That's practically flaming as well, and flaming is against the rules.


Now, I'm in GoH, and I bet that any GoH member who comes over here and sees the crap you're posting would agree that Nate is more right on this than you. Also, you've no right to say that Nate has no honor. How well do you even know him? Just because he thinks you're a crap leader doesn't mean that he has no honor. And he never said that you were a 'powermonger' or an 'overlord'. I bet he can understand very well that you're not. But you're the one who doesn't understand that leaders of level requirement clans aren't powermongers or overlords either!

Also, what's this crap about people becoming slaves to leaders and then the leaders using that to get what they want? Dude, that doesn't happen. And any clan run by a leader who does do that will fall apart after a month or so because no one will follow a leader like that! Most of the requirement clans around have good leaders.

And now you're saying that Nate is only against you because he's trying to be funny? Have you ever thought that maybe he actually thinks that you're wrong? No, apparently not. There are a lot of people who think that what you're fighting for is pretty jacked. Does that mean that any one who disagrees with you will be told that they're 'buffoons', 'honorless', 'unable to use their brain', and 'seeking attention'? Just for the sole reason that he says your wrong doesn't mean he's a bad person. Nor does it mean that he's a slave to an overlord, nor does it mean he's an elitist, nor does it mean any of those stupid things you keep saying.

Also, Halo, UFF is not allied to SeeD, UFF is part of SeeD now. You're a SeeD as well as a UFF now -.-



... Also, Doki, since you seem to enjoy repetitively editting your post and adding stuff in as I'm posting, I'm adding something on. In your last paragraph you make Nate look bad as an example as to what overlorders look like. Stop trying to make other people look like bad people to make yourself look better. Nate isn't going to wake up, since there's nothing to wake up from. Maybe someday you'll wake up from your dream that you're right and requirement clans are bad, but considering how closeminded you've shown yourself to be in my previous conversations with you, I would doubt that that will be any time soon >.>

[Elvenblader]

Dokimos, I dont know what is your problem, but you should not try to disrespect a fellow clan member. It was your choice to join Seed and you and Cspace made the arrangement. When you entered Seed, you agreed to the rules and regulations of Seed. As Darkness said, any type of flaming is not allowed. So it does not matter what garden you are apart of, what faction you are in. Each person in Seed is a highly regarded member that deserves the same amount of respect as anyone else. Nate is a member of Balamb. Even though not everyone will agree with your ideals and opinions, you should not try and degrade someone else. Yes you are a leader of a clan, but flaming is what is going to start conflicts within the clan. So next time please check yourself and not try to insult another person.

P.S. Nate next time you go into another garden, you need to watch what you say not try to provoke another member. Things like this is what will cause problems in the clan.

This post has been edited by Elvenblader5: 11 June 2006 - 01:28 AM

[Ratty]

Dokimos, If you werent a leader, You'd be getting warned right now.

Being the leader of UFF does -NOT- give you permission to take down respected members of the SeeD community. I dont care what the premise is.

I am expecting you to apologize to nate.

PS:

[Thanks Moo]

[dokimos0rg]

When Nate insults me, it apparently has not been rebuked by SeeD Moderators.

However, if I respond to his personal insults and respond, then I am faulted by SeeD Moderators who specifically side with Nate because he is a member of their own Guardians of Honor clan.

Obviously these guys are not moderating for SeeD but for GOH. This is not honorable but an invasion of forums with power of moderation bestowed upon them.

I call for Cspace immediate attention on this.

UFF is entitled to speak out regarding its own established political stance regarding the abusive overlording of other clans.

Again, personal flames were started by Nate and others, not myself. This double standard by the GOH members is an attack on SeeD Clan as a whole. An infiltration that is abusing priviledged power.

[Cspace]

Personally, I think Nate needs to take a step back, and I think Dokimos should reconsider how he's handling the situation that's brought to him. I realize that Nate has been insulting Dokimos privately and in the open, which is not the way to persuade someone to think about another side, and Dokimos should not insult in return or bring something personal into the open to rally UFF against a single member. As could pertain to both, making enemies with the one you're trying to persuade doesn't usually work. However, when both Nate and Dokimos argue in the fashion that they have, they are indirectly (and perhaps falsely) proving each other to be correct in different ways even though it may be the worst of each being brought out. No offense intended, but I think both Nate and Dokimos are hurting themselves on both sides, and from a neutral perspective I really think this should be dropped by both before it escalates further.

Those SeeDs who wish to have nothing to do with UFF should either just let them be or discuss things in a respectful and logical manner. Attacking UFF simply because of a disagreement in ideals is really quite unnecessary, and in doing so you alienate many members who are also free-thinking and may have some other interpretation of their Garden's goals. From UFF's perspective, I would think that there are things to worry about other than setting an aggressive focus toward one or two SeeDs in disagreement... For I know that there are many SeeDs who, as with what has been happening in the other direction, are feeling alienated by some of the comments being posted.

It is not important enough for either side to blow it up to these proportions, and I am posting this to try to benefit both sides in this situation. No hard feelings, I know first-hand how these situations can amplify, but I just hope that both sides can drop it for the sake of everyone involved.

Thank you

*************************************************

As for the moderators, they are moderators for the community and the majority don't actually play Runescape. It is not a SeeD rank. Very truthfully, they are getting annoyed with the situation being caused by this drama and they want it to end for all sides involved. While three moderators most certainly do not speak for the whole moderator team, they should not be instigating conflicts when they could otherwise be solving them.

As long as anyone is insulting others... Whether it be a member in disagreement, a member of UFF, the leader of UFF, or a moderator, the situation will not end. Someone will have to wake up, and when it can be treated without hostility is when it will end, if that is what everyone wants. Then UFF can focus on its goals, members who are not involved with UFF can do what they do, and maybe some ("some" with a focus on SeeDs not in UFF) will realize that there are many respectable members in Winhill Garden. Then the merge can do what it was meant to do, boost positive activity for everyone involved, and perhaps some will realize that the internal fighting is really quite pointless when there are other ways to do things?

Just a thought... Let's work together here.

[Skyone]

I'm going to have to agree with Darknie and Elenvenblader that you are trying to make yourself look better and try to make Nate look bad. I really don't agree on how you have been flaming against Nate and using words like gay and bafoon. Then you say how others flame...like your not? I just wanted to let you know, what you are doing will only cause more trouble.


Btw....no problem Ratty!

[dokimos0rg]

I agree with Cspace wholeheartedly in what he said.

United Freedom Fighters has been founded as a resistance to restrictive clanning by levels and resisting imposing lordship in clans by their rules on others. This is how we started, what we do now, and will continue to do.


I do not apologize for saying that ...
"Clans that restrict their membership by levels are clubs where only the gay players are invited."
I emphasize it!


Sorry if some don't like this, but honestly, if someone said, "Clans that don't have high-levels only are gay" to accuse those like us in UFF wouldn't find such awful offense from us as much. Reason why is that we have gotten so used to being cut down so much we have been drowned into silence. Well, it has been a long time and it is time we speak up against all the bashing we've been taking.

What has happened here is another attempt to quench to silence the vision, purpose and values of the United Freedom Fighters for the freedom of Runescape. Under no circumstances whatsoever will we be silenced.



We are fed up with the snobbery of the so-called elitist clans.

It could be said that anyone who boasts of exclusive clanning amongst UFF in effect says,"I'm a member of an exclusive club where only the gay players like me are invited? I think I'm cool! Be like me!"

I apologize that this seemed to some like I was calling Nate gay, but in fact, I didn't call him gay by posting this. I call restrictive clans as a whole as clubs where only the gay players are invited. There is no specific naming of players or even specific clans about that.

I have been slandered and my words have been purposely twisted and misinterpreted to be used as a weapon against the UFF Movement.

Freedom is under fire. Who will stand for responsible freedom of speech?

Thank you for your most speedy intervention, Cspace.




As for my critics and the critics of the UFF Movement, you might as well give it up, for you cannot stop us. UFFs words for Runescape freedom will not be limited to this forum in SeeD. We are now opening to post elsewhere.

If my attitude and the attitudes of other UFFs aren't liked, then our critics should take a good look in the mirror at their own attitudes and how they have been actively cutting down others outside their snuffy clubs. The posts here against UFF are just a small sample of what we face because we stand for open clanning.

We are angry and outraged for the abuse that we have been getting, each as we have received from the alleged Runescape elite. We will not be quiet nor inactive about this.

We are United Freedom Fighters and members of SeeD. We are the new Runescape revolution!

This post has been edited by dokimos0rg: 11 June 2006 - 03:37 AM

[Fredie21]

Cspace is right again hes God i tell you lol but in all serious he brings up a good point and you guys should cosider this sincerly

[Res]

TBH, I don't know of a time where I severely cut you down. I've only ever disagreed with your opinions and stated why. And from what -I've- ever seen, you've been the one to slander others and twist words to suit yourself. Not an attack, just what I notice.

All I ever do is try to reason with you and figure out why exactly you act the way you do. Personally, I don't understand. You could make a clan that welcomes all members regardless of level, but you could stand to lose the "Holier than thou" outlook.

BTW, I was the first SeeD ever to join GoH, and I believe I can stand up for Nate defending the GoH clan. How dare you accuse GoH of being "elitist" or "snobs". You make baseless attacks on a wonderful clan when you know NONE of the members and don't know half of what they're about. I apologize, but you hit a nerve when you sweep over and bunch the GoH with your visions of "Elitist clans". Because all the members of that clan are FINE people, and if you took a day to get to know Hobba Unf, Shan, or any of the members that are in it currently, you'd change your opinion on them. They are all wonderful people and I am proud to be a part of that clan. because I WORKED for it, and feel the satisfacton of being able to be called a member.

You don't get something for nothing, Dok. People who don't work hard to be in a skilling clan should not be allowed in a skilling clan.

I'll back off, because I know you'll not change YOUR elitist views. Yes, I called you elitist, because of your "Holier than thou" attitude towards all clans with requirements needed to join.

[Cspace]

Let me break down what I am saying even further...

Nate is well known in SeeD, and is a friend to many who may or may not be involved in UFF. Appearing to alienate a friend in the open will invoke a negative response and a negative reputation for the one presenting the idea.

The same goes in the other direction. Appearing to alienate Dokimos will invoke a negative response from those who support him.

Along the same lines, there are many ties between SeeD and GoH, and alienating their clan will bring a negative response from those who think otherwise.

Trying to get the last word in either direction is only perpetuating this. It doesn't help for anyone on either side to interject "soandso is right" when what they're right about is exactly what is fueling the situation. Sometimes a compromise must be made to attain the best end for all: In this case, the last word will be the difficulty if the argument is the foundation. So either members will try to work together, or they are only digging the situation into a deeper hole for everyone involved.

Dokimos has his opinions, Nate has his, the moderators have theirs, all the members of SeeD (including UFF) have their own, and I have my ideas. We are all free to believe what we wish. SeeD was founded with that open-endedness in mind. UFF is not as different as some would like to claim. Just read about what it is that those in UFF joined, and maybe you'll see what I'm saying: http://dokimos.org/runescape/

Whether or not you agree with the side held by Dokimos, whenever he comes against someone, it is in response to perceived antagonism toward him. Dokimos has not been going out of his way to do anything negative toward SeeD, or for that matter to affect any SeeD outside this forum who doesn't wish to become directly involved. I know for a fact that a few have been attacking Dokimos privately, and it is a little unfair for others to make judgements based only on what is here.

Whether or not some would like to admit it though, no particular side is at fault.

So I'm on the side of understanding I guess... Who is at least with me for this?