[Cspace]

It's not easy for a multi-game guild to get off the ground, as I'm sure many of us would understand. There are various inherent challenges, such as having guilds interact between entirely different games, inspiring members to seek a goal that applies to everybody, and maintaining an organizational structure that is simple and effective. It may be hard to begin, but it would certainly be worthwhile in the end. It's a challenge that we can handle.

What would a multi-game guild provide that a standard guild cannot?

• The players you befriend in a guild can remain in the guild even after they leave the game.
• Many of us play multiple games, and therefore members can easily do stuff together in more than one place.
• The collective effect of recruiting and promotion will benefit all guilds that are a part of the whole. Recruiting in Guild Wars, for example, will most likely also benefit our activity in Runescape, WoW, or wherever else. When activity grows in many games simultaneously, that effect will potentially be very large.
• It's easier to start a new guild when backed by an already well-established community.
• You don't need to worry as much about rankings and other online promotion because you'll already have them.
• There would be an inherently stronger community.

Our two problems are recruiting and leadership. Many of us see recruiting as a complicated process that can potentially be dangerous, which should not realistically be the case. It's discouraging, and in truth it's suffocating our guild. Then when it comes to leadership, we seem a little confused and we may be lacking some ambition. In a multi-game guild, we need to realize that a single leader cannot micromanage everything, which means that for us member-leadership is more important now than ever before.


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I think I can help everything along by making some specific changes.

The following is basically how we are organized at this moment:



First, we have CurvedSpace. It's our community and site.

Then as a part of CurvedSpace is the Arbiters' Order, our multi-game guild.

Then as a part of the Arbiters' Order are factions. There are two kinds, even though only one type has really been organized. However, I know that there's interest in reviving the Gardens in some way, but they don't really have much of a purpose in the current system so there's not much incentive to do it. Being our previous basis for member leadership, I think we should make something like Gardens return to our guild.

Looking at the big picture, this is pretty complicated. A new member probably won't know what he or she is joining. One would join a guild, but the guild is part of another guild, and the big guild is part of a gaming community. Each guild has ranks, but the consolidated guild has its own ranks as well. We're confused as well when most new members appear... We end up welcoming them to CurvedSpace, the Order, SeeD, DoA, and pretty much everything else. This is a problem.


The following is my solution:



CurvedSpace is our site, community, and overall guild... Only it won't be referred to as a guild. It would be implied, but to discuss "guild within a guild" can be somewhat confusing for new members.

Then factions will be like Gardens. Members will create, organize, and maintain factions that are independent of our guilds. They will be forced to be few, so we don't end up with the same situation as before with Gardens flying everywhere and nobody knowing what the devil is going on. To begin with, I'm thinking three (as their own categories on the board index, by the way).

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1) My own administrative faction. It would take the place of "staff", and would help me help our leaders with organizing behind an overall goal. It would be like an open version of CIK, so the leaders of our factions and guilds can appropriately contribute to the greater need. It would also be a worthy place for leaders to discuss plans with each other.

2) SeeD. We need to do it justice, because it's where we came from! It should be revitalized.

3) Another faction that is of our members' design.

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Factions would be divisions of CurvedSpace which, excluding my faction, would pretty much be controlled by our members. Members would each need to choose one to officially be a part of, and they would be organized with their own systems (designed by our members). You would only need to worry about your own, but the whole concept of factions will greatly bolster member-leadership. They would be divisions of our site, not divisions of a guild. This is important because it's more intuitive for new members to understand.

Then what about our current factions, like DoA, which are guilds of their own? They would not be considered factions of a larger guild. They would simply be known as guilds. DoA, for example, would be considered a guild aligned with some faction. There would be multiple guilds within a single faction. What's the logic of this?

Since factions would be under the members' control, and since they are divisions of our site and therefore not linked to games, there would hopefully be more creative ambition than there is currently. Those not involved in online games can be involved directly with factions, while guilds would also have a place in a faction. I believe that this involvement would be incentive for members of different guilds to interact with each other, and ultimately this is what brings the benefits of having a multi-game guild.


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It would be simpler, and it would give more power to our members. It would also hopefully be more fun to handle, since a faction that is not linked to any games can have more creative freedom. Our members could make SeeD be like SeeD in its true context, and the same can be true with other factions based on different things. Either that, or our members can be creative and build their own systems. Maybe have leader elections, or their own ranks, or perhaps a code for their members to follow. It's almost limitless.

You can make your mark on CurvedSpace.

I truly feel that this will work, but our members will need to contribute their creativity and ambition. I've been working out many solutions over the past months, and to me this seems to be the strongest. It should also keep the "small guild feel" while we grow.

So please let me know what you think!

[Jake]

All my DoA recruitment has been in vain lately. It seems most people are trying to get into highly competitive guilds that are all about whatever guildwars' equivalent of raiding is.

[Charlie]

Overall, I think this idea could very much well work. Its simplier and easier to understand for newer members, as I do believe the old system was a little complicated, many new players did not know where to look most of the time, and seemed to be afraid of asking for help heh.

Hopefully, this idea will go down well with everyone and everyone will help to contribute, as well as recruiting and promotion.

I think the recruitment I have been doing is helping in some ways. People show interest in the guild but don't join o.o I think it has helped a few members to join, but unfortunately they don't stay. Maybe they will with this new vision.

[Jake]

I had an idea. One of the reasons that members probably left is because we have all these rankings, yet nobody acknowledges them since they have no real bearing on anything... at all.

So why not make it so that each faction has no rankings?

[Cspace]

I had an idea. One of the reasons that members probably left is because we have all these rankings, yet nobody acknowledges them since they have no real bearing on anything... at all.

So why not make it so that each faction has no rankings?

It would depend on each faction. Since members would only be able to officially belong to one, they would only need to understand one system. They could choose the one they like, and join it.

For those who don't want organization, maybe this would be the time for Cactuar Island's return.

(For those who don't know, that was our leaderless Garden. )

[Jake]

You mean the Peoples Socialist Republic of Cactuar Island?

[Cspace]

You mean the Peoples Socialist Republic of Cactuar Island?

[Kimojuno]

I am a little concerned with having staff as its own faction, if staff are in their own faction and people can only join one faction wouldn't that put a rift between staff and members? My thing is why do we need more then one faction?

You are talking about having more then one guild in a faction, right? If that's the case then shouldn't everyone be in one faction? Granted the guilds would probably have their own ranks, but if everyone is in one faction then that would possibly get them to communicate more.

Guilds would be able to communicate more, and both members and moderators (all groups of moderators) would be closer. Granted we need moderators, smods, gmods, etc, but that wouldn't be a faction that would be moderators of Curvedspace - all of curvedspace.

There is no real reason for moderators to be a "faction", since that implies they are held differently then members. Moderators should be held no differently then members, the only difference is moderators have added responsibility to watch over the community. Yes, both members and moderators are to help keep the community safe but moderators are given extra responsibility. That is, and should be, the only difference between the two.

More then one faction is not making sense to me especially if the whole point is to 'close the rift/gap' as it were, and make it so we are all seen on the same level and also so that we all have the power to positively help the community as a whole. If people want to help, and they should help, I think one faction inside "Curvedspace" led by ALL GROUPS would help people work together.

There would be more then one guild (DoA, SeeD, etc), yes, but they would exist as guilds in games. They would have forums, obviously, but they would be part of a bigger picture - a member-led community. Members aren't just those in the "Member" group but rather everyone who has signed up - including mods, smods, gmods, and admins.

Summary:

Why have more then one faction? Splitting mods, and above, into their own faction would only hinder the possibility of helping the community evolve. Members and moderators should both have the power to positively help the community, and yes moderators+ should have moderator powers but the only difference between the groups should be that moderator groups have extra responsibility (e.g.: the powers the moderator groups have now). Both members and moderators should be considered members of the faction, and curvedspace as a whole, though if we are truly to be Member-Led.

[Cspace]

Sorry for the confusion.

I didn't really mean that moderators would be considered "staff". I listed both staff and mods in the images, but I understand why it could lead to confusion. I guess it was a bad choice of words.

By "staff", I mean a few members with positions that don't exist yet. No guilds would be aligned with that faction. Think the Council of Telan, the Council of Luscartia, an open version of CIK, and the Wayfarer's Tavern, all put into one small but open administrative faction with its own flavor. It would have very few "members", but anyone can discuss things there involving our community as a whole.



Like Gardens, the main purpose of factions would be to divide leadership, and not to divide members.

[Cspace]

(Intentional double-post, not replying to anyone in particular.)

My idea is not definite, and I hope that anyone who has concerns will reply with them. If you think there's a problem with the idea, or if you have a suggestion, then please make it known. That's why I post these things instead of just doing stuff on my own.

This is a complicated problem, and it requires a refined plan.

It's complicated because we have a lot of factors to worry about. There should be ambition, a reason to lead, and a reason for interaction between guilds. Our organization should be simple and uniform, but not non-existent unless we just want to be a community with guilds. We should also give as much control to members as would be logically safe to give, while providing a single goal that we all want to pursue regardless of game. We have a recruiting issue to solve as well, which is closely tied to leadership. We should also ensure that leadership won't become overwhelming for someone who wants to have fun here, which may get complicated without divisions.

Together, I think our guild can figure something out. I'm just considering my idea to be a starting point, but we all need to discuss our situation if we are to succeed.

[Aaron]

One segment of members and potential members that we fail to adequately provide for are those who are just here for the forums. Many of us don't wish to be involved in a particular CurvedSpace game guild, and are quite content with simply browsing the forums. Others enjoy the "forum-based" friendships that develop very much like in-game friendships.

I propose that we delineate CurvedSpace and SeeD once again (or find a fitting alternative). By doing so, I believe we could attract a major segment of our visitors. I'm sure that CurvedSpace shows up in Google searches (and toplists) under search terms such as "RuneScape" and "Guild Wars." Many of those visitors aren't coming here to join a guild. Some simply wish to find a cool forum to discuss games. Heck, some may even come looking for general discussion (myself included).

A major schism may not be necessary, but I feel it IS necessary to appeal to the common "poster." This plan might also indirectly help SeeD if we get enough traffic. I firmly believe that if we get CurvedSpace's name out there, we can become a premier game-discussion site.

[Cspace]

These changes would probably bolster the community more than our guild. Factions would be major divisions of CurvedSpace, perhaps even assimilating the secondary forums. SeeD could be the new home for gaming forums, for example. Perhaps members would join a faction for their preferred area, and the leadership of that faction would focus more on it to keep things happening. In this plan, factions would not actually be considered guilds, or even driven by guilds.

We would lose the "multi-game guild" image by losing the Arbiters' Order name, but we could have guilds align themselves with factions for the same purpose that Gardens used to have. They would be considered guilds within CurvedSpace, which is simple and intuitive. They would probably be in their own category, just named "Guilds" or something else logical, and their association with a faction would be like joining a team. Like Gardens, only more unified, and perhaps more fun for those who like being creative.


What I'm thinking is that the leadership of factions would pertain to CurvedSpace. Guilds would represent themselves and work together where possible, and hopefully with more simplicity, those who join our guilds would interact here and support each other (same purpose of our current "multi-game guild" mindset).


I'm also trying to think of something more unique than what we have now. There are probably millions of gaming forums all over the internet, most with basically the same formula. We could deviate a little bit from that formula.

[Zziggywolf5]

I feel that this discussion may need to be dumbed down for me.
Now, I made a chart that I think is the idea. (It's not as nice as Cspace's, I know)

Can someone explain the mistakes in this line of thought?

[Cspace]

Yeah, that's basically right.

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What if...

We stop focusing on individual guilds, and as a gaming community just do stuff wherever we want. Guilds can organize here if our members want to organize them, and they will continue to be supported, but as a community we won't base our organization on them.

We only really have two active factions right now: SeeD and DoA. What if SeeD disappeared as a guild (I'll explain in a moment), DoA continued to be its own guild, and all current inactive factions were archived. DoA is organized and easily capable of going on the way it is, so I wouldn't want to touch it. The guild is awesome even if there has been a slight drop-off with regards to activity. As for the inactive factions, that would be for cleaning stuff up so the board index doesn't get too crowded, as a guild category would put them in the open. From then on, we could establish new guilds, but it would be a really big deal to start a new one.

Then what about SeeD? It's painful for recruiting to happen because, in Runescape, a URL cannot be sent to anyone. To my knowledge some of us have started to refer to our guild there as CurvedSpace, because at least that will show up in search engines. Why not start a new paradigm, where we don't rely on individual guilds, but where our members do stuff in whatever games they play. We could invite players to join, so we would still have areas where we focus, but there won't be any divisions so interaction here is seamless.

It would also widen our scope, because we would transcend a guild and therefore even appeal to those who are already in guilds. This would boost our community, and could also boost in-game involvement because it would be transparent to other guilds. As an example, I don't think any RS guilds complained about members going to RSC events. We could even host tournaments and stuff without anyone thinking there's a bias. Again, this helps our community.

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But then, where would the factions come in? The more I think about it, the more I think that three will be all we ever need.

1) An administrative faction.
2) SeeD, a gaming-centered faction.
3) Another faction that handles the more intellectual stuff, such as creativity and debates.

In this revised plan, guilds would not be attached to them in any way.

The leadership and organization of a faction, excluding the administrative one, would be handled by our members. Those who are into online games could focus on organizing that half of our site, while those who are into the intellectual area would focus on organizing that half. Members could obviously be involved in both, but leaders could perhaps be elected or chosen in some other way for them to ensure that things keep happening. Members could also "join" a faction, and effectively be joining a team like our old Gardens.

[Darkness]

I was about to click on the link back to the board index, but then noticed that I have been, in fact, lurking, and decided to post. Even though I have nothing to say. For the sake of posting. Because lurking is bad.

Hoorah! Yay for new plans! I'm sure this one will work better than the last few