[dokimos0rg]

Yes, Bballmastr1, indeed our greatest concern is our clan's values as we take them most seriously. It is a foundation of freedom that brought us together.

* * *

We have sought ernestly to avoid submitting to the authority of control-freaks. SeeD appears to be far from acting like control-freakish.

Whenever an autocratic player wanted to act like the boss over others in our clan, he would no longer be recognized as a UFF and be dropped from the members list.

* * *

Although it seems you've had your own share of rebels to deal with as we have.
Just as you don't like your rules broken, we don't like our values broken.

Granted, one of our values is to not make rules, but it seems your rules reflect the general aim of our values. You are not seeking to raise the bar on others nor to control others.

* * *

We also value our friendships with each other and wish to maintain them, build them, and grow together in friendship with others.

This is why our clan's great recruitment, I feel, should not be gone to waste. Just simply trimming down is not going to solve problems for us. There is no quick fix for us in this. We have trouble building fast to accomodate.


Would such rapid recruitment be pleasing and well working for SeeD clan?
Do you believe SeeD can handle it?

[Nate]

In my opinion i think SeeD could handle it.. but im just a member so ignore me

[Daryl C]

Would such rapid recruitment be pleasing and well working for SeeD clan? 
Do you believe SeeD can handle it?

Another thing that might be brought back into action for this is our garden system. For anyone who doesn't know we have gardens that break our clan up into smaller sub clans called gardens. Once again there are no real rules that the gardens have to follow as long as the follow the same general rules that SeeD does. Will an increase in membership the gardens would be good to make smaller groups of people so it is easier to get to know eachother as well as have some structural leadership.

Personally as a headmaster of a garden I wouldn't mind some extra competition for my weekly challenge

[Aaron]

I believe SeeD could not only handle it, but take it and turn it into something even better; the clan it used to be (yes, before I was here ).

[dokimos0rg]

UFF Clan can do just what you did, yes.

To go through all the same struggles you have then get boiled down to the few faithful to rebuild and start over again. But yes, as better, as you've become.

This time now you are experienced leaders and have learned from your mistakes and your trials. You learned how to improve and done it.

I know you at SeeD got dwindled down to a few faithful. I see this happening to UFF at sometime the same way.

But does UFF have to go through what you have?

Yes, you do see what I am thinking now... To unite clans gaining the strengths we need from each other to be strong as one.

I would be curious to know if we could agree upon a unified statement of values

Perhaps if your clanleadership would examine our own clan's values at http://dokimos.org/runescape and redraft to what suits you, this may be helpful. I hope that suggestion is not too much to ask.

It is not a demand or a specific requirement from us, but it would help a whole lot to put a lot of UFFs minds to rest and would help having more UFFs join SeeD rather than us losing many or splitting.

* * *

The UFF Clan Forum has comments of mine on our clan's values that communicate the ideas of our values. How we sought to apply our values into action. We have a developing working system by these values.

I do not seek to change SeeD but rather just simply to help find the best way to establish a unity between us, should such be agreeable to both our clans.

I believe we are working for the same ends. United Freedom Fighters Clan is willing to change some of its methods in order to preserve its values, vision and goals.

This post has been edited by dokimos0rg: 15 November 2005 - 10:43 PM

[Kaezion]

it would help if you were clearer in expressing what you're trying to do. are you saying that you're willing to dissolve your clan and have its members join SeeD, given that our values be the same as yours?

[Daryl C]

United Freedom Fighters is a clan of Runescape players united to stand of defense of each other in the wilderness and fight to protect the freedom of our characters from the imposing rules and threats of other clans.

We are the indomitables and exhort others to depart from the standard model of many Runescape clans that is based in autocracy and places restrictive rules on others that exploit players through dominating rulership.

We protect and preserve the freedom of players and help each other to learn and be successful in Runescape and encourage others to join with us.

There is no level or skill requirement to join this clan. Provided a character has completed Tutorial Island on Runescape (version 2), whether free-to-play or pay-to-play, the character is qualified to join United Freedom Fighters clan.

Although many of our higher leveled members belong to clans that require high levels, we never wish to get SeeD to turn like that

This is a clan without rules. We don't need stinking rules! We are bound together by shared values. We will not be raising the bar of requirements on this clan's members nor on applicants to this clan.

The keeping of values of United Freedom Fighters clan is what demonstates a player as one of us. Departing from the values of UFF clan is understood as a departure from this clan.

Basically the same as SeeD. Some standard clan rules apply such as you cannot kill fellow clan members in the wildy. Even this is allowed though if both parties agree on it, or something such as 2 SeeD are fighting against each other in another clan's war.

See our list of clan members and the United Freedom Fighters Clan Forum. We invite and recommend all members of the UFF Clan to join our forum. Our clan has no rules but our forum does. Therefore, be sure to follow the protocols of the forum accordingly.

We have the value and heritage of not being ruled by others nor to exercise lordship over others. Leaders in this clan are among the clan not over the clan. Leadership is shown by example and demonstrated by helping other characters to be successful, not by demonstrating dominance or acting as a control-freak.

Cspace, along with anyone else of any power in the clan work more as mediators rather than making rash decisions. Most problems can be sorted out as long as there is a third party to keep things on track.

Helping other players to become successful is not achieved simply by free-giving as this encourages others to become or remain "begging noobs" which is not building up the skill of characters nor experiential game knowledge for players. By patient instructing of others of the game with a generous and uncontroling attitude leadership is demonstrated.

Begging others for items is esteemed as an attempt to control others. Begging noobery is a humiliation both to the player and to this clan, contrary to UFF clan's values. Loaning items to others is discouraged as its inherent expectations will tend to divide rather than unite.

United Freedom Fighters encourages the building of friendships through mutual help and reciprocity. Fair trade which makes possible for lower level characters to obtain better armor, weapons and items is encouraged.

No one is required to give anything to a fellow SeeD or pay any dues of any sort. If someone wishes to sell something cheap to someone because they are a clan mate that is their choice. Everyone hates beggars.

As a player in the clan is perceived as a leader by other clan members, the character of the player shall be recognized as a leader in the clan. This is provided that the player does not exhibit characteristics of lording over others.

Titles are not handed out in this clan nor are there ranks of achievement. Someone in this clan is what he or she does. Consistancy in performance of useful functions or roles in this clan will result in recognition.

Leadership positions in SeeD are earned, not given away to people. This basically follows the same structure as what you have in your clan.

Remaining active in Runescape or in this clan's meetings, events or forum are not required for membership nor a condition to remain in membership. You do what you want. You do not take orders from other members in this clan. Neither do you give orders to others in this clan. We do, however, encourage and invite our clan members to our meetings, events and forum.

Inactive members will not continue to be recognized as leaders amongst us nor as function roles in the clan if they do not continue in such.

Participation in anything is not required. Members who no longer follow the values of SeeD may be stripped of their leadership position/banned, depending on the situation. One small difference here, inactive members in SeeD seem to keep their position within reason. A member may disappear for six months, come back and keep their position as long as they still follow the values.

We encourage each other not to allow anyone to rule over over us. We also encourage those outside our clan in the same and to join us. We build teams amongst us by building friendships and developing trust. All UFF members are encouraged to know their fellow UFF members whom they go on wilderness trips with.

For the sake of unity within United Freedom Fighters and consistancy with this clan's values, those who join us need to renounce membership in all other Runescape clans. We are "United" Freedom Fighters with undivided loyalties. Therefore we have only one clan, which is, our own and none other.

This is one area that we do differ in. Members of SeeD may also be members in other clans. The other clans that members usually join is a pking clan since SeeD is not that big into pking

We value freedom for all characters in Runescape and exhort all members of United Freedom Fighters to stand in defence of the liberty of all players of Runescape within Jagex's rules. Consequentially, activities such as scamming and hacking oppose our values as these are contrary to the freedoms of other players. United Freedom Fighters, does not condone the breaking of Jagex's rules for Runescape.

yup

By joining this clan you agree that in the wilderness of Runescape you will not attack another UFF clan member as we are a united clan that values its own members. Members of this clan are listed on this site. We may also be recognized by the wearing of a blue cape in the wilderness or the typing of "uff" in chat.

This is allowed under circumstances where both parties agree or clan wars (stated above). Hey, our colors match

Discontinuation of a player's membership in UFF clan occurs if he or she does not uphold nor honor the values of United Freedom Fighters. Questionable behavior will result in a UFF member being placed on probation. Consistant effective embrasing of UFF values will restore a player from probationary status in UFF.

If a UFF clan member player kills another clan member in the wilderness it is a demonstration of departing from the values of the United Freedom Fighters if such player killing actions was done in knowledge.

Should a member have a grievance with another member they will need to solve such problems themselves and not involve the clan. If such problems arise that a member seriously acts contrary to the nature of United Freedom Fighters, the visionary leader of UFF, dokimos0rg, will need to be contacted.

Planting seeds of discord and disunity in this clan is not acceptable and also shows a departure from the values of the UFF clan.

Those who have left this clan by departing from its values may be restored to clan membership by demonstration to the clan a reembracing of UFF values.



Joining United Freedom Fighters means we will stand together for the success of our characters as a team for the freedom of Runescape.

To join, simply send an e-mail to online@dokimos.org with your character's username or complete our UFF Membership Application online. Do NOT send passwords.



As for "Castle Wars", UFF clan members are free to take either Saradomin's or Zamorak's side. We do, consequentially though, have a leaning toward Saradomin's side, as blue capes are also the color of our clan.

Our affectioned homeworld in Runescape is World 40.
For a Runescape member server, World 88 is preferred.



King of Men clan, Magic's Wrath clan, Pro Bono guild, World Corporations clan, Tanklords guild, Dragon's Claw clan, Militants clan, Dragon Riders clan, Chaos clan and Slayer's clan have all united together with us as United Freedom Fighters. We welcome like-minded clans to join with us in our mutual cause for freedom.

Other clans may also join together with us as United Freedom Fighters should they abandon all clan rules and ranks of authoritarianism. In place of such, to cling to UFF clan's values of freedom, respectful trade and clan unity. Player membership in UFF clan, even for members of other clans joining with UFF, nonetheless, remains on an individual basis of personal adherance to UFF values.

The rest all sounds pretty much the same as well. Basically we run the same type of clan with only 1 real difference. SeeD members may belong to another clan as well. Besides that everything looks the same.

Fellow SeeD members feel free to correct me on any of this since everything is open to a different interpretation.

[Baseballl]

We both have almost the exact same visions and values of UFF. Our leaders in SeeD are only authoritative when needed, such as stopping conflicts (if authority is needed), handling threats to the clan, and just upholding rules. When I say rules, I mean thing such as pornography, open insults in the forums, and hacking attempts. Other than that, we are a very open clan with little to no restrictions.

At this moment I would declare us as allies until further discussions happen. Like I said, you know how to contact me and you can contact Cspace on here also. This is a great opportunity for both clans, so please feel free to keep posting here (even in other topics besides this one) and I'm sure we can agree on a plan. Once Cspace sees this, I would enjoy talking about this more.

[dokimos0rg]

Thank you for replying to me specifically about our UFF Clan's values.

UFF's value regarding our clanmembers having membership in other clans was a debated topic before we started this clan. This was also questioned after we did start UFF Clan. It has been an object of contraversy since, howbeit most amongst us did side toward single-clanning to UFF.

On this point, should UFF Clan join in with SeeD, we will yield to SeeD's liberty regarding what UFF Clan has termed as multiclanning.

This is one of the methods that we of UFF would, of necessity, have to change about. We will need to reinforse our own values of Unity through other means, especially of which being through forming friendships.

As clanmembers of SeeD you do honor to your clan's values well and are a credit also to your clanleader. You have done much good leg work for him in protocol.

* * *

Under this clan merge proposal, UFF is not dissolving but rather uniting with SeeD clan as one clan, embrasing the name "SeeD".

United Freedom Fighters would not die but to live on within and as one with SeeD.

I could change the United Freedom Fighters Clan website possibly to read...

United Freedom Fighters of SeeD

or

United Freedom Fighters
now united with SeeD Clan

or yet another proposal from clanleader Cspace.

The site's chief concern would to be a recruitment tool for SeeD clan. It would not be a seperate entity from SeeD.

UFF Clan membership to remain as Active Members in UFF Clan would of necessity need to apply for the SeeD Forum and subsequently join in with the Runescape Faction. SeeD would there on be the host for the list of UFF membership, to be called SeeDs.

The application system would be go directly toward SeeD's own join page.

This would be United Freedom Fighters joining SeeD as SeeDs.

If there may be honorable mention of United Freedom Fighters as one name with SeeD in any way, this would be appreciated but not insisted upon.

Is this deemed acceptable?

This post has been edited by dokimos0rg: 15 November 2005 - 11:25 PM

[Aaron]

I personally find this acceptable. Since I have no leadership position, I cannot make a decision on this, but I put my name in as agreeing to this proposal (if Cspace agrees to a merging, that is).

[Cspace]

I thank our members for handling this as they have, and I thank Daryl for bringing this to my attention.

SeeD would be glad to work something out with UFF, although a merger of this sort would be a step into uncharted territory for us (well, since late 2002). While I'm sure it can turn out well, it will take a little thought as to how this could be implemented properly. I believe that our system can accommodate something along the lines of what you're proposing though.

Perhaps it would be good for us to discuss the exact manner of the merger, for it could probably be handled in a number of ways. Would you like your clan to remain as its own entity within SeeD, somewhat along the lines of a Garden or Faction? Or would you like further inclusion otherwise, while still maintaining an identity? From your posts it sounds like this is what you are after, and we can provide a means for your members to identify themselves in the open if they would like. We could probably work with whatever intentions you have with this.

I know that this is probably a very difficult decision for you. I can guarantee that there is no problem in relation to too much traffic though, and we would greatly welcome more activity. With increased activity for a more free cause such as this, in the sea of elitism everywhere else, perhaps a merger of sorts could make a larger impact on the general RS community. Perhaps we could also be a beacon for those not interested in merely power or numbers.

Anyway, I believe that it would probably be best to discuss this on a messenger if possible. My AIM screen name is 'Cspace Support' and my MSN name is 'CspaceSupport@hotmail.com'.

Just let me know what your specific goals are with this and we will try to work something out to meet them.

Also, welcome to the SeeD community, it is great to see that other clans with similar ideals can indeed succeed in the current game.

[?FaLLeN?]

Im not as important as many in SeeD in runescape as i do believe that would be a good move since we do need some runescape members.


And a tip for UFF if this doesnt go, is to create groups of like 200 each and have a number of ppl be asigned to a group to train with the entire group so u will be able to calm things down.

dont know how it will work for u but its worked for me in other clans so.....

[Bodom]

Well itd certainly make seed active in the game.. Maybe if you cant handle all the members though for the meantime dont accept EVERYBODY who applies? Or close apps for a while.. dunno what sorta system you use with applications though.

[Goto]

While situations such as this are certainly uncharted waters, it's also an exciting chance.

I had a quick glance at your homepage, that's an admirable set of ideals you're adhering yourself to. Without actually having looked at the community, I'd guess it's quite possible you're struggling to keep up due to a high level of organisation when it comes to people breaching your rules. Any system where people are monitored and dealt with on an individual basis if they breach your ideals is going to be straining on the leadership team, particularly in such a rapidly developing clan. As you've said, you've got the activity but not the structure there to handle it.


I could see a merger working, provided it's talked through so that everybody benefits.
Personally the way I'd approach it is to declare the UFF a faction of SeeD while fitting it under the Garden system. While we would be sharing the same community and basic organisation, you'd still be free to retain most of what you are now. Perhaps a board specifically for UFF members down with the Garden boards, and an option in members Profiles if they want to identify themselves as belonging specifically to the UFF. You get the basic structure needed for a large clan and are a part of SeeD, but can still maintain some individuality. SeeD gets a big boost to activity and a lot of like-minded and friendly people joining and participating, but doesn't suffer from the same kind of identity crisis that a large influx of new members can bring to a clan. It would also probably be possible to get either a section of the SeeD homepage to describe the UFF, or a link to your clan homepage if you'd prefer to keep your own.

The final decision is between you and Cspace of course, I'm just brainstorming possible ideas. I hope we can reach some sort of arrangement though, it sounds quite promising for all involved.

Oh, and something along the line of what I've suggested also has the added benefit that you still retain authority to run UFF within the faction system. So you can still appoint leadership positions for UFF. And of course when the need arises for more leadership positions for SeeD, your people are eligible for that too.

[?FaLLeN?]

While situations such as this are certainly uncharted waters, it's also an exciting chance.

I had a quick glance at your homepage, that's an admirable set of ideals you're adhering yourself to. Without actually having looked at the community, I'd guess it's quite possible you're struggling to keep up due to a high level of organisation when it comes to people breaching your rules. Any system where people are monitored and dealt with on an individual basis if they breach your ideals is going to be straining on the leadership team, particularly in such a rapidly developing clan. As you've said, you've got the activity but not the structure there to handle it.


I could see a merger working, provided it's talked through so that everybody benefits.
Personally the way I'd approach it is to declare the UFF a faction of SeeD while fitting it under the Garden system. While we would be sharing the same community and basic organisation, you'd still be free to retain most of what you are now. Perhaps a board specifically for UFF members down with the Garden boards, and an option in members Profiles if they want to identify themselves as belonging specifically to the UFF. You get the basic structure needed for a large clan and are a part of SeeD, but can still maintain some individuality. SeeD gets a big boost to activity and a lot of like-minded and friendly people joining and participating, but doesn't suffer from the same kind of identity crisis that a large influx of new members can bring to a clan. It would also probably be possible to get either a section of the SeeD homepage to describe the UFF, or a link to your clan homepage if you'd prefer to keep your own.

The final decision is between you and Cspace of course, I'm just brainstorming possible ideas. I hope we can reach some sort of arrangement though, it sounds quite promising for all involved.

Oh, and something along the line of what I've suggested also has the added benefit that you still retain authority to run UFF within the faction system. So you can still appoint leadership positions for UFF. And of course when the need arises for more leadership positions for SeeD, your people are eligible for that too.

thats a GOOD BRAIN at work u should liten to this wierd odd person it