[CongressJon]

Okay, first of all, Jewish thing - I am Jewish. Ziggy pretty much cleared it up. An Israeli is from Israel. An Israelite is one of the earlier Jews, from the Twelve Tribes, I believe. A Jew is someone who practices Judaism, obviously.

Anyways... It is interesting that the main argument for lenience toward African-Americans is their centuries, even millenia, of enslavement and discrimination. The main reason for the allowance for offensive actions and words from them, while there is virtually no tolerance for us, just seems to have evolved from the earlier days in the Civil Rights Movement, or at least, I think so. When people finally started getting rid of their prejudices toward African-Americans, they began to treat them with more respect, and, thinks I, as a result, such offensive name-calling toward them was disallowed. Also, they were no longer criticized for just doing regular things, and this gave them some lenience. As for whites... well, with their newfound respect, it became even more so offensive to call a black person a -N- or something of the sort. I think that sort of thing has just integrated itself into the American culture, by this point.

As to why the Jews don't get quite as much respect... It's an interesting question. It's sort of the same thing - we, as a culture, were enslaved for centuries by the Egyptians, and forced to serve them. They say that the Egyptians built the Great Pyramids, but in truth, they just organized it. It was the endless labor of the Hebrews that brought it into reality. With little clothing and possessions, small rations, ridiculous work hours, and the like, many perished of exhaustion. Simply put, the Jews were oppressed over the time they were in Egypt.

And then, sixty years ago, the wrongs done on them by the Nazis. The Jews had really done nothing - Germany just needed a scapegoat to vent their anger on after the chaos that ensued following WW1. The economy collapsed, etc. etc. And so, the Jews became the Reason For All Evil. As a result, 6 million of them, men, women and children alike, were brutally slaughtered. Forced to do long hours of labor, they helped the Nazis go on in the war after being rounded up into concentration camps. They were no better than dirt. All babies were thrown into a pile, and burned. Anyone who was too sick to do labor was shot, gassed, burned, etc. And, of course, there were the horrible medical experiments... on and on.

Today, still, there are some remembrances, but in comparison to the African-American race, it's nothing. It is a bit of a puzzle why the Jews don't get at least a bit more respect, if the blacks do. But similarly, as there are some black jokes, there is actually a bit of prejudice against Jews, if not so big. There are some racists out there... and, plenty of Jewish sterotypes. "Jews are all rich." Pfftt.

Could say more, but haven't time.

i think most blacks need to get a life not all just the ones that are raping about how thay killed some 1

I'd say that's one of the most racist things I've ever heard. That's pathetic - you think that blacks, as a whole, should get a life? That just shows that you yourself should. Sure, there are some African-American gangsters out there, some of whom will murder and steal. Even the occasional one who will go so far as to rape someone. But to speak of a whole race in such a way makes you look just as bad as the few blacks that actually fall under the sterotype.

and not all Muslims are terrorists.

*cough* I beg to differ...

:O! I know some Arabs and Muslims. I am offended.

No kidding! Stupid American sterotype because of 9/11. Yes, there are some (really, very, very few) Muslim extremists who might go so far as to commit an act of murder based on religious beliefs, or whatever, like Osama bin-Laden. But, in general, it's not a good idea to say something like that.

[Zziggywolf5]

Ah, so I was right about the Israeli stuff.
I never thought of this... It's so bad to make black and hispanic jokes. But Jewish jokes are fine. Poor Jewish people. Enslaved by the Egyptians, fled from them, taken over by the Romans, rebeled against Romans, had holy sites burned by Romans, fled them to Europe, blamed for the Black Plague, killed for 'Plague involvment,' the list continues. Jeez

Can we stop insulting groups and go back to the topic of fair or unfair rights?

[Kaezion]

ziggywolf, could you please not make up stuff that i didn't say?

i didn't say that minorities only ever need help. i'm saying, minorities on the average are more disadvantaged than white people. in fact, i acknowledged that some white people get screwed over by the system of affirmative action. what i say in defense is that the number of minorities who get screwed over without affirmative action is higher (by a considerable gap, i would think) than that of white people who get screwed over with affirmative action.

i've never seen a rich black person, except on TV. i'm sure there are many of them, but it goes to show how comparatively little of them there are compared to their white counterparts; i see white people driving Benz S-classes every day. of course, this is not to say that there aren't any poor white people either; there are plenty of those too.

ziggywolf, i'm not saying that you don't deserve help. you're one of the white people i mentioned before who are neglected by the whole system; but, for every white person like you, there would maybe be 2 or 3 minorities who would be in the same situation had it not been for affirmative action.

why shouldn't the U.S. consider white people more important than minorities? because these minorities are U.S. citizens nevertheless (the non-U.S. citizens - white or non-white - don't even benefit from these programs, so we're not taking them into consideration for this topic).

i'm not arguing that black people should get help because they were enslaved - they should get help because they are stuck with a disadvantage which was given to them by the white people. i'm not encouraging dwelling on the past. but what makes the issue of slavery pertinent, when it ended so long ago, is that its effects are still visible today - there is a huge socioeconomic gap between blacks and whites, and this is because while whites on the most part were allowed to freely advance themselves financially and socially, blacks were only given that option starting 1860s and even then at a much slower rate than whites because of heavy discrimination. that is why slavery needs to be considered - not in terms of "compensation because bad things were done to the blacks" but in terms of its ongoing effects today, and who is responsible for these effects.

you might say that Jews deserve the same thing, then, because they were enslaved and treated inhumanely. maybe they do; however, America is not the country to demand it in, because America did not enslave the Jews, and America did not start the Holocaust. yes, it's true that Jews were also heavily discriminated against in America - they are still discriminated against. however, Jews don't show the same kind of socioeconomic disadvantage that blacks today show; though you can find many Jews in lower classes, you can find just as many, if not more, in the middle-to-upper classes. furthermore, a large portion of them have assimilated into the white population and aren't even considered minorities anymore. they are, on the average, comparatively well off.

[CongressJon]

ziggywolf, could you please not make up stuff that i didn't say?
you might say that Jews deserve the same thing, then, because they were enslaved and treated inhumanely. maybe they do; however, America is not the country to demand it in, because America did not enslave the Jews, and America did not start the Holocaust. yes, it's true that Jews were also heavily discriminated against in America - they are still discriminated against. however, Jews don't show the same kind of socioeconomic disadvantage that blacks today show; though you can find many Jews in lower classes, you can find just as many, if not more, in the middle-to-upper classes. furthermore, a large portion of them have assimilated into the white population and aren't even considered minorities anymore. they are, on the average, comparatively well off.

Oh, I never meant to say that Jews should get just as much... let's say compensation as African-Americans should! I just think that there should be a bit more respect, at times, considering what African-Americans sometimes get in those circle. Still, overall, it seems to be true - whites are just better off than blacks in most cases, simply because that whites have been dominant in America for its entire history. African-Americans have had only a couple of decades to really build a name for themselves, as a race. Of course there are plenty of African-Americans who are successful. But, like Kaezion said, I don't see too many African-Americans driving Mercedes-Benz S-classes.

[Zandabyte]

i said that the blacks that are raping about thay killed some 1 should get a life not all did u bother to read

[Nate]

Yeah Rapping and Raping are two different things cow

[frylock9]

i hate the blks that think they are tuff and gangsters and carp like that. So to thoses types of blk ppl i am racists to lol i think its funny when blk ppl in my my school talk carp, all of them are all bark no bite like most of them.lol anyway i ave many blk friends guys and girls cause u know tey act normal and not loud like most o the others.

[Zziggywolf5]

Kaezion, I'm not speaking directly at you, I'm just speaking of the people who expect some pretty mind-blowing things. I agree that minorities have not had the same time and rights to build on socially and economically. It’s just that, as you said, someone will always be screwed over, so where’s the ‘best’ mid-point? Hmm… I seem to think a bit differently when I’m not sleepy/annoyed. Anyway, I think some go a tad to far on both sides.
By the way, as far as rich minorities, remember, I live in an area full of snooty, rich people. In America, my family’s middle-class, around here, we’re lower. There will be some rich blacks if you get enough rich people in general.

Oh, the Jewish thing, I’m not saying anything about U.S. compensation, it’s just an example of societies who just don’t give a damn about certain groups. Meh, I could give a lot more examples, many people could.

[Neraphym]

From a socioeconomic standpoint, I have to agree entirely with Kaezion. Blacks are descriminated against all the time. They hold the undesirable jobs, they live in poverty, and have very little opportunities for advancement (compare inner city schools to suburbian schools...). If anything, they deserve affirmative action. They need to advance in society and be on par with whites.

On the ideological standpoint, I have to disagree. Just because whites have or do discriminate against blacks doesn't make it ok for blacks to sink to that level. All things ought to be equal. Evil is evil, regardless of the color of the skin of the person doing the evil. To exempt blacks from racist is just as bad as being racist yourself, and society needs to change in order to reflect that. I will not stand for racism.

Jokes, on the other hand, are different entirely. Anything done for ammusement, no matter how politically immoral, is ok, as long as it is done soley for this purpose. I'll make a joke about abortion. I'll say something horrible like "what's strong enough for a man, but meant for a woman? The back of my hand! *slaps*." I'll say racist jokes. I don't do this because I'm evil. I do it because I want to make people laugh. Laughter is by far the greatest thing in all of existance. I hold it above eveything else, because it is that important to me. Now, it's different if the joke did not focus on laughter, but rather, racism/sexism/slaughtering babies. That is just wrong.

[Joseph]

Lol, doesn't it seem like the Jews always get screwed over? Yeah, enslaved by Egyptians, opressed by Romans and other ancient societies, slaughtered by nazis, slaughtered by Arabs, etc. If anything, Jews should be upset about being opressed and not blacks. Being beaten with a whip occasionally is a lot better than being thrown into a furnace, in my view.

Dude, hyper, i'm sure if you went to Israel and asked an average Israeli what he thought of Arabs and what percentage of them he thinks are terrorists, they would give a much different answer than what you said. ;-D

[Rohtaren]

whipping is meant as a punishment that won't cripple someone, but leave a mark that will last forever. but still, its better than suffering maybe multiple bullets, acid showers, poison in food, disease and malnutrition in camps, furnaces, i could come up with a lot more, but i won't. its not like anything was ever blamed on blacks... really... jews have been having things blamed on them for a really long time. look at noah and his family, they were hated by everyine around them, but they didn't complain! i think that the worst thing that the jews did while enslaved by Egyptians was mosses killing one of the slave drivers... and he was considered an Egyptian prince... he ran away and talked to God in the form of a burning bush... never complained about the slavery.

another example Joseph... he was his father's favorite son... most of his brothers really hated him... then they sold him into slavery in Egypt, but when a famine came, he forgave them happily... while in slavery he never complained, but rather gave advice to others in jail cells and stuff like that... in fact, that is how he got out of jail and became a noble among Pharo's council.

now, see the Blacks... they seem to think they are better than everyone else... its not true, they are equal... it is by God's Amazing Grace that they were born an American and they waste their privileges... so do many Whites and Cuacasions. they were not sluaghtered in the segregation... except maybe by KKK members... but other than that, they were just easy to get from Africa for laybor on plantations that needed a lot of workers. now everybody... except some countries in the world... know that slavery is wrong and blacks should have forgiven us. but noooo, they just want to waste their privileges (along with many whites and cuacasions)and go around insulting everybody in sight, selling illegal drugs, and killing people thinking that it is cool and that it is legal so they can get away with it.

Hitlar was a very odd case, he wanted to preserve the Aryan race (blond hair blue eyes) so he sluaghtered jews to preserve the Aryan race and he blamed all of Germany's problems on them... Hitlar wasn't even part of the Aryan race... he had black hair... just like most of the jews.

oh my, when will people ever learn!?

[Kaezion]

Lol, doesn't it seem like the Jews always get screwed over? Yeah, enslaved by Egyptians, opressed by Romans and other ancient societies, slaughtered by nazis, slaughtered by Arabs, etc. If anything, Jews should be upset about being opressed and not blacks. Being beaten with a whip occasionally is a lot better than being thrown into a furnace, in my view.

Dude, hyper, i'm sure if you went to Israel and asked an average Israeli what he thought of Arabs and what percentage of them he thinks are terrorists, they would give a much different answer than what you said. ;-D

because the worst that blacks ever had to endure was being whipped occasionally?

now, see the Blacks... they seem to think they are better than everyone else... its not true, they are equal... it is by God's Amazing Grace that they were born an American and they waste their privileges... so do many Whites and Cuacasions. they were not sluaghtered in the segregation... except maybe by KKK members... but other than that, they were just easy to get from Africa for laybor on plantations that needed a lot of workers. now everybody... except some countries in the world... know that slavery is wrong and blacks should have forgiven us. but noooo, they just want to waste their privileges (along with many whites and cuacasions)and go around insulting everybody in sight, selling illegal drugs, and killing people thinking that it is cool and that it is legal so they can get away with it.

does anyone else see anything wrong here?

yeah, blacks are causing too much trouble in America, and it's all their fault! it's not like America forcefully took them from Africa and forced them to live here, right?!

[CongressJon]

now, see the Blacks... they seem to think they are better than everyone else... its not true, they are equal... it is by God's Amazing Grace that they were born an American and they waste their privileges... so do many Whites and Cuacasions. they were not sluaghtered in the segregation... except maybe by KKK members... but other than that, they were just easy to get from Africa for laybor on plantations that needed a lot of workers. now everybody... except some countries in the world... know that slavery is wrong and blacks should have forgiven us. but noooo, they just want to waste their privileges (along with many whites and cuacasions)and go around insulting everybody in sight, selling illegal drugs, and killing people thinking that it is cool and that it is legal so they can get away with it.

does anyone else see anything wrong here?

yeah, blacks are causing too much trouble in America, and it's all their fault! it's not like America forcefully took them from Africa and forced them to live here, right?!

Actually, um, yeah, we did. I can't remember when, but America did engage in slave trade.

[Zziggywolf5]

America engaged in slave trade while still a colony. The Europeans wanted super cheap labor to work in the hot climate of the south. They noticed that Africa was hot, and figured that was good enough reason. ~Special Bonus~ The different Africans were more than willing to sell their captured enemies! Europeans didn’t even have to DO anything, not even catch slaves.

Whipping, ouch… I’ll never forget a Civil War-era photo of a slave showing his back. Covered with scar tissue, all hunched over. How could you even bend over to work after that? After 15+ years of that, I probably would have hanged myself, or gotten shot for attacking the owner.

[Rohtaren]

punishments i've heard of for runaway slaves were cutting off the gr*** or chopping off the toes of one foot so they couldn't run any more. ouch