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Global Warming. Hurricanes. See the connection?

#1 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Nuu™™ {lang:icon}

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 06:09 AM

Okay here is the issue. There have been two huge hurricanes in America lately (i.e Katrina and Rita). Could it be possible that global warming is the cause?

Random Stuff

On the News a few months ago the news reporters chose to go around the city and ask people what global warming is. It was surprising how little people know about these issues. Some people even said 'It is the big hole over Antarctica that is burning all our children's skin'. Whatever_anim.gif

Some Statistics

Amount of C02 emitted by Australia: 1.9% of global emissions

Amount of C02 emitted by China: 14.1% of global emissions

Amount of C02 emitted by the USA: 24.4% of global emissions

I just thought I would rub that in. biglaugh.gif
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Things which you should look at:

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#2 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Aaron {lang:icon}

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 02:15 AM

A lot to think about especially since we just finished "The Day After Tomorrow" in Earth/Space Science class icon_sweatdrop.gif .
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#3 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Neraphym {lang:icon}

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 03:39 AM

A single, major volcanic eruption will spew more garbage into the atmosphere than mankind ever could. -Popular Science

Air is mostly composed of nitrogen, oxygen, and argon. Carbon Dioxide doesn't even make the top 3 and isn't going to any time soon. Don't sweat it. I personally don't believe in global warming. Recorded weather doesn't date back very long. Who's to say the last several hundred years wasn't just a period of global cooling and we're finally comming off that?

Speaking of the hurricans, if you were to examine the sediment at the mississipi river delta, you'd find that hurricans very in intensity over certain cycles. Scientiest expect that we are at the end of the 'calm' period of hurricanes. Expect more and more hurricanes to form each year, as well as stronger ones, too. Some of us may even see a category 6 hurricane in our lifetime.




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#4 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Nuu™™ {lang:icon}

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 04:48 AM

QUOTE(New Scientist)
A massive global increase in the number of strong hurricanes over the past 35 years is being blamed on global warming, by the most detailed study yet. The US scientists warn that Katrina-strength hurricanes could become the norm.

Worldwide since the 1970s, there has been a near-doubling in the number of Category 4 and 5 storms – the strength that saw Hurricane Katrina do such damage to the US Gulf coastline late in August 2005.

Peter Webster of the Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, says the trend is global, has lasted over several decades and is connected to a steady worldwide increase in tropical sea temperatures. Because of all these factors, it is unlikely to be due to any known natural fluctuations in climate such as El Niño, the North Atlantic Oscillation or the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.

“We can say with confidence that the trends in sea surface temperatures and hurricane intensity are connected to climate change,” says Webster’s co-author Judy Curry, also of the Georgia Institute of Technology. The team looked at the incidence of intense tropical storms and the study results are the strongest affirmation yet that Katrina-level hurricanes are becoming more frequent in a warmer world.
Unnatural trend

The study finds there has been no general increase in the total number of hurricanes, which are called cyclones when they appear outside the Atlantic. Nor is there any evidence of the formation of the oft-predicted “super-hurricanes”. The worst hurricane in any year is usually no stronger than in previous years during the study period.

But the proportion of hurricanes reaching categories 4 or 5 – with wind speeds above 56 metres per second – has risen from 20% in the 1970s to 35% in the past decade.

“This trend has lasted for more than 30 years now. So the chances of it being natural are fairly remote,” says Greg Holland of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) at Boulder, Colorado

Moreover, says Webster, natural fluctuations tend to be localised. “When the east Pacific warms, the west Pacific cools, for instance. But sea surface temperatures are rising throughout the tropics today.” The surface waters in the tropical oceans are now around 0.5°C warmer during hurricane seasons than 35 years ago.
Satellite era

Hurricanes form when ocean temperatures rise above 26°C. “The fuel for hurricanes is water vapour evaporating from the ocean surface. It condenses in the air and releases heat, which drives the hurricane’s intensity,” says Webster.

“The tendency to Katrina-like hurricanes is increasing,” Holland says. Without the warmer sea-surface temperatures, “Katrina might only have been a category 2 or 3”.

All the data for sea surface temperatures and hurricane numbers and intensities come from satellite data. “We deliberately limited this study to the satellite era because of the known biases [in the data] before this period,” says Webster.

This is the third report in recent months highlighting the growing risk to life and property round the world from hurricanes and tornadoes. In June, NCAR’s Kevin Trenberth reported a rising intensity of hurricanes in the North Atlantic.

And in August, Kerry Emanuel of MIT found a 50% increase in the destructive power of tropical storms in the past half century.

Journal reference: Science (vol 309, p 1844)


Heh, NS beats PS anyday. bluetongue.gif Oh, and for Alpha:

QUOTE(New Scientist)
AS NAILS in the coffin go, they don't get much bigger: three independent studies have shown that climate sceptics who claim that Earth is not warming have been using faulty data to make their point.

The debate on climate change has often centred on the temperature of the lower troposphere. Common sense and computer models suggest that as the Earth's surface warms, so should this layer of the atmosphere. But measurements from satellites and balloons did not always support this.

In 1992, John Christy of the University of Alabama in Huntsville analysed the satellite measurements and concluded that the lower troposphere had cooled over the decades, relative to Earth's surface over the tropics. For those arguing against global warming, this analysis was pure gold. "The data from the satellites have taken on almost iconic status," says Ben Santer of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California.

But the findings remained puzzling. "It is very difficult to understand physically how the lower troposphere could be cooling while the Earth's surface and the middle and upper troposphere were warming, as this study found," Santer says.

Now Carl Mears and Frank Wentz of Remote Sensing Systems in Santa Rosa, California, have an answer. They reanalysed Christy's data and corrected for errors caused by satellite drift. "The satellite is supposed to go over the equator and take measurements at the same time every day," says Mears. Initially this was at around 2 pm local time, but after a few years it was crossing the equator at 5 pm, he says. "Common sense tells you that it's cooler at 5 pm than at 2 pm, and that was biasing the results." Once they factored this in, the data showed that the troposphere is warming (Science, DOI: 10.1126/science.1114772).

Mears and Wentz have strong support from Santer and his colleagues, who used 19 climate models to simulate the changes that would have occurred during the course of the 20th century. "Despite the fact that these models are all different in their physics, they all yield similar results in the tropics," he says. They all predict that warming at the Earth's surface should be amplified in the troposphere. "This makes sense physically," Santer says (Science, DOI: 10.1126/science.1114867).

Mears agrees. "The only thing left for sceptics to point at would be the weather balloon data that also showed discrepancy with the models." And now Steven Sherwood of Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut, and his colleagues have shown that the balloon measurements are unreliable too.

The problem has to do with protecting temperature sensors from direct sunlight. "It is just a little thing dangling from the balloon and there's no way to shield it consistently," Sherwood says. Over the years, researchers found new ways to shield the instruments from the sun, but rarely bothered to make a note of this shielding or calculate its effect on the raw data. Improved shielding led to a drop in the temperatures recorded by the sensors, and this can explain the trend of declining temperature in the troposphere as recorded by weather balloons, Sherwood says (Science, DOI: 10.1126/science.1115640).

Christy welcomes Mears and Wentz's analysis of the flaws in the satellite data he used. "Their suggestions helped me fix my error pretty quickly," he says. His reanalysis now shows the Earth is warming by about 1.23 °C per century. Mears and Wentz calculate the trend to be about 1.9 °C per century.

The world is not warming as fast as the 1.5 °C to 6 °C per century that models suggest, Christy says. "We all agree that warming is related to human effects, but it's not as dramatic as models say."

Sherwood agrees that the debate will linger. "I don't think we have resolved the controversy over global warming," he says. "But there is no longer any data contradicting the predictions of global warming models."


Some other non-quote points:

1. A small island below NZ is inhabited by an endemic species of lizard. A baby lizard's gender is decided by the incubation tempreture. This lizard is now dying out because of one reason: Global Warming. Because of the raised tempreture females are becoming scarce, and therefore the species is dying out.

2. You come to Australia and say there is no Global Warming, with dam levels <30% capacity and ranches going broke and whole scores of cattle dying.

Alpha is right though, we really shouldn't worry too much. I heard that the tempreture rose 10 degrees at the start of the Age of the dinosaurs, almsot twice the 6 degrees expected for Global Warming (only thing is, over 90% of all species died, but who cares as long as we can get to work on time and have fewer taxes?).
I have trademarked the symbol: '™'. You fail at display names.



^ Thanks to Nazy for the... thingy ^

Things which you should look at:

SKoA - http://skoa.cspacezone.com/ , if you have any Age of Empires games.

The DS Garden Festival Minigame - Link , whether you play DStorm or not.

The Most Mysterious SSSS - Link For people who don't care about...things.

Like LEGO? Play Blockland!


I may be an Arbiter, but I'll always be a SeeDy little man.™™
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#5 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Cspace {lang:icon}

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 05:38 AM

I personally believe in Global Warming, although I don't know that it's progressing as quickly as some think. I feel like some are wrongly dismissing it though without any real basis. By the time there is concrete proof it may be too late for a reasonable fix, so I would suggest that until it is proven or actually scientifically disproven we work to lessen the potential damage... Because a lot of evidence is pointing to it and we don't need to make the situation worse by turning away until the problems are physically upon us (whether or not they are now).

The stakes are high and I think we should listen to the experts and the data that we have. It could be a lot of things, but assuming that it is natural will be a fatal mistake if infact we are causing this.

After all, what happened to Venus? It got hot to a certain extent where the CO2 began to rise into the atmosphere from the rocks, and that made the planet hotter. It started a cycle in which the atmosphere became thicker and thicker, and hotter and hotter. We can see it today, the greenhouse effect on steroids. Venus is a very Earth-like planet, in my personal opinion more like Earth than Mars... and we have the same potential situation here, although organisms do affect the process. Massive eruptions don't happen frequently and the planet can recover. What we're doing is constant, sending more and more junk into the atmosphere that doesn't need to be there. Whether or not it's going to create an unnatural cycle I do not know, but I do know that it's not good no matter how you look at it... And I think we need to be doing a better job at managing it.
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#6 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Neraphym {lang:icon}

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 08:39 PM

As it is, we've done an excellent job at cleaning up air pollution. Our society is so dependant on that which pollutes, that it would be very difficult economically to eliminate it entirely. As long as the EPA constantly pushes cleaner air and stuff, we'll eventually find a happy medium. I honestly think that controlling our climate is impossible. It is definitely getting warmer, but is it really our doing?
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#7 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Crescens {lang:icon}

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 11:22 PM

Even if global warming is having a gradual impact, it's not what's causing the hurricanes. That's just what hippies say to try to give themselves some level of credibility when they'd otherwise have none.
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#8 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Nuu™™ {lang:icon}

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 12:09 AM

QUOTE(Regulus @ Sep 25 2005, 09:22 AM)
Even if global warming is having a gradual impact, it's not what's causing the hurricanes. That's just what hippies say to try to give themselves some level of credibility when they'd otherwise have none.
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I see your point there, these hurricanes seem to be becoming more common faster than anyone expected, so fast that it seems impossible that it could be caused by humans.

Even if Global Warming is a myth (which I do not believe at all), it gives us a good excuse to get rid of all that smelly, ugly industry (I might be going off track a bit here, but so what). Also, you have got to remember that the more we use fossil fuels, the faster they will be depleted, and the bigger the impact when they are depleted.

You know, I seems so stupid to use such toxic chemicals (i.e burnt fossil fuels) so frequently. I am sure there is some long term effects of exposure to these chemicals (that probably made no sense whatsoever).
I have trademarked the symbol: '™'. You fail at display names.



^ Thanks to Nazy for the... thingy ^

Things which you should look at:

SKoA - http://skoa.cspacezone.com/ , if you have any Age of Empires games.

The DS Garden Festival Minigame - Link , whether you play DStorm or not.

The Most Mysterious SSSS - Link For people who don't care about...things.

Like LEGO? Play Blockland!


I may be an Arbiter, but I'll always be a SeeDy little man.™™
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#9 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Kaezion {lang:icon}

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 04:55 AM

QUOTE
You know, I seems so stupid to use such toxic chemicals (i.e burnt fossil fuels) so frequently. I am sure there is some long term effects of exposure to these chemicals (that probably made no sense whatsoever).
you know what the symptoms are? complete economic dependence.

This post has been edited by Kaezion: 27 September 2005 - 04:56 AM

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#10 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Cspace {lang:icon}

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 06:26 PM

Here are a few questions that I'd like to ask:

- There has been a gradual increase in temperature since the industrial revolution, when we started spewing carbon dioxide and other chemicals into the atmosphere. Carbon dioxide is a major greenhouse gas and is the reason Venus is how it is (as a visible example). Without saying "coincidence" or some equivalent, what specific evidence is there against global warming?

- If it is a natural climatic fluctuation, what's the deal with the apparent ozone depletion at the same time? If this is caused by the mess of ozone-killing chemicals we send into the atmosphere, what effect would the CO2 have?

- Where is the CO2 going? It has practically been trapped underground for millions of years and all of a sudden we're burning it up and sending it into the atmosphere. The climate requires a balance with CO2, but when we start sending massive amounts of it into the air, why would it not have an effect?

**************************************************

QUOTE
Even if global warming is having a gradual impact, it's not what's causing the hurricanes. That's just what hippies say to try to give themselves some level of credibility when they'd otherwise have none.

People who don't understand this on both sides are arguing whether or not global warming causes hurricanes. One who says global warming causes hurricanes is probably wrong, while one who says that it doesn't is probably right.

However, that's not the question that should be asked.

The question is, what effect could it be having on the hurricanes? It wouldn't cause hurricanes, but what could it do to them? Hurricanes are fueled by heat in the ocean. Global warming would increase the water temperature. Something as seemingly minor as a degree or two could have major effects on these storms. So if global warming exists, it would most likely make hurricanes stronger.

I do not believe, however, that global warming had much to do with this year's situation relative to previous years. I do believe that global warming would increase the average intensity of hurricanes over time though, which sadly is very much a lesser effect of the process.
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#11 {lang:macro__useroffline}   the7knights {lang:icon}

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 01:09 AM

Yes, the issue of Global Warming is very scary indeed. In fact it is more dangerous than terrorism. Perhaps some of you just recntly watched the Earth to America show that came on at 7:00 to 9:00 on tbs, it was a docucmentery on how us as americans have the duty, responsiabillity, and moral obligation to start raising concerns and awareness about environmental issues such as global warming, climate change, etc. It was quite funny actually lots of famous actors such as Tom Hanks, Will Ferrel (who played the part of Bush) and several other distinguished actors educated america for 2 hours on how we must tackle and make sure global warming does not rise to its full potential of destruction that it I know, you know, and what America knows. We need to get congress to start trying to solve problems on how to keep our environment clean, democrats and republicans alike. The bottom line is we must control global warming so it does not destroy us, our children, and future generations to come. TheSmile.gif
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#12 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Nuu™™ {lang:icon}

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 01:23 AM

Er...I am Australian. eek7.gif

But anyway...

REVIVORNESS!
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^ Thanks to Nazy for the... thingy ^

Things which you should look at:

SKoA - http://skoa.cspacezone.com/ , if you have any Age of Empires games.

The DS Garden Festival Minigame - Link , whether you play DStorm or not.

The Most Mysterious SSSS - Link For people who don't care about...things.

Like LEGO? Play Blockland!


I may be an Arbiter, but I'll always be a SeeDy little man.™™
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#13 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Spikeout {lang:icon}

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 11:43 PM

QUOTE
During the last century, the earth has been warmed between, .3 and .6 degreese celcius and carbon dioxied, a primary greenhouse gas has increased 30%. Scientists agrued that the earth's current warming is due to increased Co2 and use of fossil fuels. It is said that Climate models are crude predictors of climate change. A study in October 2, 1998 refutes the claim that the current warming could only be caused by human activities. It showed that 12,000 years ago that global temperature rose by more than 20 degrees in approximatlely 50 years. The natural change was more than ten times the "Environmentalists" claim only humans could be causing and it occured in half the time. In the Discovery Channel, scientists have claimed that the Earth shifts from glacial to warm periods every 100,000 years or so. Why exagurate about a natural occurance and blame it on "us" that we are causing it when more natural things can cause greater warming of the Earth than what we do. People often say that the Global Warming we cause is our fault and we are the cause of the most pollution of the air. But what they're missing is that we only play a tiny role in the warming of the Earth. We cannot change the Natural phases that the Earth goes through. That is why Global warming is very overhyped. People only look at what the people do, but the past and natural events of the Earth has done.




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#14 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Nuu™™ {lang:icon}

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Posted 26 November 2005 - 03:41 AM

QUOTE(Spikeout @ Nov 26 2005, 09:43 AM)
QUOTE
During the last century, the earth has been warmed between, .3 and .6 degreese celcius and carbon dioxied, a primary greenhouse gas has increased 30%. Scientists agrued that the earth's current warming is due to increased Co2 and use of fossil fuels. It is said that Climate models are crude predictors of climate change. A study in October 2, 1998 refutes the claim that the current warming could only be caused by human activities. It showed that 12,000 years ago that global temperature rose by more than 20 degrees in approximatlely 50 years. The natural change was more than ten times the "Environmentalists" claim only humans could be causing and it occured in half the time. In the Discovery Channel, scientists have claimed that the Earth shifts from glacial to warm periods every 100,000 years or so. Why exagurate about a natural occurance and blame it on "us" that we are causing it when more natural things can cause greater warming of the Earth than what we do. People often say that the Global Warming we cause is our fault and we are the cause of the most pollution of the air. But what they're missing is that we only play a tiny role in the warming of the Earth. We cannot change the Natural phases that the Earth goes through. That is why Global warming is very overhyped. People only look at what the people do, but the past and natural events of the Earth has done.

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Even so, the amount of CO2 as well as CO and NO2 is excessive to say the least, and is (according to my Science textbook) somehow further damaging plantlife worldwide. eek7.gif
I have trademarked the symbol: '™'. You fail at display names.



^ Thanks to Nazy for the... thingy ^

Things which you should look at:

SKoA - http://skoa.cspacezone.com/ , if you have any Age of Empires games.

The DS Garden Festival Minigame - Link , whether you play DStorm or not.

The Most Mysterious SSSS - Link For people who don't care about...things.

Like LEGO? Play Blockland!


I may be an Arbiter, but I'll always be a SeeDy little man.™™
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#15 {lang:macro__useroffline}   Kaezion {lang:icon}

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Posted 26 November 2005 - 08:05 AM

nuu is right. it certainly isn't a natural process that we should leave alone, if smog is suddenly killing a thousand people in a single city.
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