[Rohtaren]

Most Christians take the "Gay hating" thing too far, and are too open with their opinions. I've heard one family go so far as to get up and leave a building because a gay couple walked in.

I think they're getting it all mixed up.

God doesn't hate them. K? He hates the act that they participate in. It doesn't mean that He hates the person.

Just like me. Gay people? They're people. I don't care who it is, as long as they aren't complete jerks, I'm ok with them. I don't approve of what they do, but that's not my business to interfere with.

Jesus said "Love thy neighbor." And while I don't approve the gay lifestyle, they're still people and shouldn't be treated like they are. Nobody deserves that.

hmm, i guess that is right... that family was porbably a family of extremists though.

ya, you're right.

jesus hung out with tax collectors and beggars when he was alive.

jesus is still alive! oh my, people haven't gone to 2nd-5th grade sunday school i had to do all grades of sunday school up until 6th, that was when it turned into more fun and games than learning about the bible.

[Elvenblader]

My point was never-ever that I didn't accept them. But, as stated by me and others. HE WAS NOT THERE TO SEEK GOD!!! Thats why I freaked out. I should have posted that orginaly.
He came to be with friends, and more than likeley mock chrisitanity...


I accept gay people. I despise the act they are involved in. I went to a party one time...turned out it was gay party. I left. Why? Becasue I get so pissed off about there lifestyle. I'm a guy, I like to hurt things. When I see a guy kisisng another one and acting like a girl IT PISSES ME THE F*CK OFF!!

When I see a guy acting like a girl I tend to double over laughing. You have to admit, gays are widely regarded as being kind of funny. And by the sound of things, you seem to be strongly opposed to homosexuality, maybe it is caused by discomfort with or disapproval of your own sexual orientation? Hate of homosexuality is generally associated with that.

As long as you don’t try to force your ideals onto another person, then cool. The reason why I take Christianity seriously is because it is like a spiritual anchor.

One of the problems with Christianity is exactly that, forcing ideals on other people. Missionaries have been doing that for hundreds of years.

Additionally, your second comment, describing Christ as a spiritual anchor, is most likely why it is so popular. Christianity makes people feel safe, it deludes them into a false sense of security. The fear of death is reassured by the fact that Christians think 'God protects me.' Even then, they know that if God decides they need to die, they will go to heaven and live in eternal bliss. They become more reckless because they think they cannot be harmed.

That last comment is going to annoy a lot of people, isn't it?

It's an interesting point you have nuu. But I disagree about what you say about Christians forcing their ideals onto another person. God would want people to accept Christ of their own free will, not be forced to follow Christianity like an hysterical fanatic. If anything you shouldn't say that Christians force their beliefs onto another person. Doing something like that is just as bad as using Jesus Christ to justify stealing, killing, raping, whatever. My point is that you need to respect someone for who they are and what they believe in.

The comment you said about Christanity is just a way for someone to be lead into a false sense of security, is dead wrong. It's common sense to know that if you know your harm's way, then you need to get out of the way. If I were to stand on a railroad crossing and a train is coming, what is the sensible thing to do? Just stand there waiting to die, thinking that God will send me to heaven in eternal bless, or do I get the heck out of the way? I would get the heck out of the way. But I do have to admit that some people do some very idiotic things, because they are Christian. But geez, I'd have to be out of my mind to think I'm invincible. Basically in the end you have two choices, you can either do it or dont. If I'm going to die today then so be it, whatever happens will happen.

This post has been edited by Elvenblader5: 27 May 2006 - 03:29 AM

[Nuu™™]

One of the problems with Christianity is exactly that, forcing ideals on other people. Missionaries have been doing that for hundreds of years.

ummm... excuse me, my parents where missionaries and i was with them on the missions field. If you think that we "force" people to believe something, then your totally wrong, i don't know what deprived countries youv'e been to, but I've been to a few.

The aim of missionaries is to well... for starters.. set up a church, help it grow etc, and 'win' people for Christ, we don't jam info down their throats, it's their choices what they want to do, they can come and follow or they can go on living on their own lives, so get some real info before you post something that you just 'think'

It was my opinion, I don't need information to back up my beliefs. There is no proof of Christ, yet so many people believe in him. Sure, you can say that there is proof of Christ, the Bible and people seeing
visions and experiencing miracles, but so do schizophrenics. And Jesus was alive 2,000 years ago, his stories would have been reproduced many times, exaggerated etc. Even if there was a real 'Jesus', or figure which Jesus was based on, then he might have just been part of an elaborate hoax, like many other hoaxes that have happened recently. For example, all those people he healed might have been pretending, or maybe he was experienced in medicine. Maybe the 'Romans' were in on the hoax as well, or maybe they didn't kill him properly. There is a lot of other explanations for the 'miracles' of Jesus.

Okay, maybe the missionaries arn't as bad as I have heard they are. Even if they arn't forcing their religion on indigenous cultures, they are still invading and destroying their culture.
Anyway, forget about missionaries. If you want information, I have personally experienced Christianity being forced on me. I go to an Anglican school. If you don't know what Anglican is, it is the Church of the Angles, the Church under the Queen of Britain. Anyway, I have been sent there because it is the best school in our region academically, not to do with its Christian side (neither of my parents believe in any religion, my dad thinks all religion is a money making scam, and my mother doesn't believe in anything at all really). Anyway, I DO get info jammmed down my throat. Bad Christian songs, sermons about how great this 'God' is, and parables which have no spiritual value at all, yet they still manage to pretend they do. Sound familiar?

Additionally, your second comment, describing Christ as a spiritual anchor, is most likely why it is so popular. Christianity makes people feel safe, it deludes them into a false sense of security. The fear of death is reassured by the fact that Christians think 'God protects me.' Even then, they know that if God decides they need to die, they will go to heaven and live in eternal bliss. They become more reckless because they think they cannot be harmed.

Hmm... where do i start with this... why it's so popular, because it provides false security. Excuse me for being umm, stupid, but I thought most religions where about finding out why on earth we are on this planet. I mean... what is the meaning of life? People, many people believe in Christianity because they believe in Jesus, it's not for a 'free ticket into heaven'. Even if u just go to church every Sunday u still won't go to heaven, ppl believe because they truly believe, it's true many people do say they are christians so that they can just 'get into heaven' but that won't get you into heaven, it's a relationship with Jesus Christ (as the Bible says) that will get u in there.

You'd be surprised how many people don't know this. Most people just want to go to heaven, and they say 'yeah of course I have a relationship with Jesus'. In fact, that last comment was wrong. Make that all Christians. Like how are you supposed to have a relationship with someone you will never see, you will never meet, or who never talks back? How are you supposed to have a relationship with something which is omnipotent, which thinks and acts in ways we could never dream of? It is like having an invisible friend.

"They become more reckless because they think they cannot be harmed" - more reckless? Everyone has a plan and a purpose, and we can choose what paths we wish to go down, i don't know what you mean by reckless, i mean all the proper christians i know are pretty steady and have a fantastic life. Why would we think that we cannot be harmed? I think u're screwing with scripture again. Because u're a Christian does not mean you are going to be invincible, it doesn't mean life will get any easier, it doesn't mean all your problems would be solved... what u ask? Well we have hardships, that's what help us grow to become better ppl and then to experience new things and take on bigger things and be a bigger influence to people.

Okay, maybe reckless was the wrong word. Maybe 'seperated from reality' or 'unnessecarily calm' would be better describing the Chrisitian view towards harm. That last sentence, for example, is exactly what I mean. 'Hardships are to challenge us. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger'. Rubbish. Heart attacks and strokes and amputations of limbs certainly don't make you better people. If you have no legs you can't experience all those things you could with legs could you? If God lets these things happen, then God is in no way merciful. Cruel would better describe him. And yes, I have debated with my school about this too. They said that bad things are caused by the devil and people. But, if you made a bomb, and the bomb exploded, would you be responsible for the destruction it caused? God knew that Satan would turn evil, so you can't say he did it with good intentions. The same as a bomb maker can't make bombs with good intentions, because bombs hold no other purposes other than death (forget about mining, that has nothing to do with what I am trying to say). Even so, God is all powerful, and he could prevent these bad things before they even happened. But know, he chooses to let them happen, just as bomb makers choose not to disable their creations.

But besides from taht, people have fear of death, because it is the unknown, no one knows what's beyond death. And yes Christianity gives us a reassurance, but what's wrong with wanting to not go to hell? If that's what you believe
it all comes down to beliefs, and cince there are sooo many different different religions and denominations here it's kind hard to say anything

I can think of a number of reasons what is wrong with not going to Hell. It is cowardice. Going under God's wing and escaping from the big bad devil. Why care about all those people suffering in his clutches. As long as you are safe, everything is good. If God wanted us to choose between good and evil, why didn't he make it like that in the first place? It says in Genesis that when Adam and Eve ate the apple that God was angry and disappointed. He knew it was going to happen, and he intended it to happen, yet this knowledge of good and evil seems like a punishment. None of the Bible really makes sense to me.

[©allum]

Actually there's a whole lot of proof that Jesus existed.

I'm not going to back this statement up, cos I'm sure people can use google or go to a library.

[Elvenblader]

Nuu, you remind me of a realist that need scientific evidence to prove something. A lot of what you say is vaild, but you know what? No one on this planet can say a clear cut definition of what we are supposed to do in this life. Sure, there are people that say they have "experienced life after death, then come back to life. But if you tried holding that to the light of the most extreme of skeptics, you know it would not float with them. The only real way we're going to know is after we die. A question I have for you is, if you were to go under God's wing and follow his way, then I ask you this, would you turn a blind eye to all those people that end up in hell, or would you do whatever you could to help them? In all honesty the Bible and religion in general is a paradox of good vs. evil, right and wrong, how to live, etc. etc. If there was supposed to be a clear definitive answer to life, then I think a lot of us wouldnt be asking ourselves why we are here. Sadly there is no answer to that.

[Re@dy_2_Ki!l]

You'd be surprised how many people don't know this. Most people just want to go to heaven, and they say 'yeah of course I have a relationship with Jesus'. In fact, that last comment was wrong. Make that all Christians. Like how are you supposed to have a relationship with someone you will never see, you will never meet, or who never talks back? How are you supposed to have a relationship with something which is omnipotent, which thinks and acts in ways we could never dream of? It is like having an invisible friend.

Again i say, u wouldn't understand since u're not Christian, for one, a realtionship with someone "who never talks back", but God actually does talk to us,yes u're probably just thinking we're all luny, but he does it through his word (the bible) and directly, and you know that you know that you know that it's him, and i doubt people have gotten the same message from him yet have never met, as happens in some cases.

U're knowledge of Christianity is obviously minimal but only of what everyone thinks, which annoys me greatly.. it's like telling a profesional golfer that you have to get the ball in the bunkers, not the hole. "which thinks and acts in ways we could never dream of?" - Yes God acts in ways we can't fathom, but that doesn't mean we can't talk to him and stuff... I mean prayer is basically talking to God, tis very easy. But just because God acts in ways which we cannot bring the concept of, it doesn't mean we are aliens to him, i mean why would he create us if we coudn't communicate?

And this forum is going to go back and forth and go nowhere, we all have our different views, i could be forever telling u the 'real' way things are done etc. But it would mean nothing to u, because u don't follow the same beliefs. I mean, i bet if i started saying something about.. your beliefs or something, i'm sure you would find it ridiculous as i would probably have no idea what i was talking about. It's just that because Christianity is more well known, and people like having their own spin on things, specially when they cannot understand it themselves.

[Star Jedi]

Yes, it's a very hard concept to believe. But life *is* a miracle. I knew a lot of people that did not believe, and years later started too, because they went through experiences that were basically miracles. I've been a Christian through-out my life only because my parents started me. I haven't been but a few years considering myself a true one.

Science.. I don't doubt what it finds. But it hasn't found the meaning of life. My Dad is a doctor, and he used to be against the whole Christian thing, but as he went through his really hard studies of medicine and life, he told me he found that there were *many* things that even his teachers could not explain; all miracles. I guess a lot won't really understand until they get into a situation they cannot explain or fully understand themselves.. Love is a miracle IMO, and very unexplainable thing.. There's nothing that can explain it, or why we have attatchments, but at least we have a word for it. And that's my "miracle", or why I believe, honestly

..and another thing. God does try to prevent you from harm, but when you disregard this and put yourself in harms way, well, that's a choice, and He gives us choices.. It's like the tale of that guy who stood in a rising river...I'm not sure if I'm going to tell it right, but this is what I remember.. Officials came by with ropes to get him out of the rising river, but the man kept exclaiming "God will save me!" A longboat came by to get him, but again, he said the exact same thing. A guy riding a camel went out to retrieve him, but again, he said the same thing. The water rose and he drowned. Of course as he did rise to heaven and talk with God, he asked him, "Why didn't you save me??", and God responded with "I sent you men, a boat, and a camel.. What more could you have wanted?" People that let go of the steering wheel and hope for God to save them in their cars.. well, it won't happen, that's their choice.

[Rohtaren]

it seems stupid that people who are not christians really like the fact that christian churches are willing to bury the people's dead and hold funerals for them... but that some of them hate all christians, even the ones who would help them despite whatever religion they are.

[Nuu™™]

Nuu, you remind me of a realist that need scientific evidence to prove something. A lot of what you say is vaild, but you know what? No one on this planet can say a clear cut definition of what we are supposed to do in this life. Sure, there are people that say they have "experienced life after death, then come back to life. But if you tried holding that to the light of the most extreme of skeptics, you know it would not float with them. The only real way we're going to know is after we die. A question I have for you is, if you were to go under God's wing and follow his way, then I ask you this, would you turn a blind eye to all those people that end up in hell, or would you do whatever you could to help them? In all honesty the Bible and religion in general is a paradox of good vs. evil, right and wrong, how to live, etc. etc. If there was supposed to be a clear definitive answer to life, then I think a lot of us wouldnt be asking ourselves why we are here. Sadly there is no answer to that.

Exactly. If none of us know what is going to happen till we die, then why do so many people bother following something that has a next to nothing chance of being true? I still don't get that.

You'd be surprised how many people don't know this. Most people just want to go to heaven, and they say 'yeah of course I have a relationship with Jesus'. In fact, that last comment was wrong. Make that all Christians. Like how are you supposed to have a relationship with someone you will never see, you will never meet, or who never talks back? How are you supposed to have a relationship with something which is omnipotent, which thinks and acts in ways we could never dream of? It is like having an invisible friend.

Again i say, u wouldn't understand since u're not Christian, for one, a realtionship with someone "who never talks back", but God actually does talk to us,yes u're probably just thinking we're all luny, but he does it through his word (the bible) and directly, and you know that you know that you know that it's him, and i doubt people have gotten the same message from him yet have never met, as happens in some cases.

U're knowledge of Christianity is obviously minimal but only of what everyone thinks, which annoys me greatly.. it's like telling a profesional golfer that you have to get the ball in the bunkers, not the hole. "which thinks and acts in ways we could never dream of?" - Yes God acts in ways we can't fathom, but that doesn't mean we can't talk to him and stuff... I mean prayer is basically talking to God, tis very easy. But just because God acts in ways which we cannot bring the concept of, it doesn't mean we are aliens to him, i mean why would he create us if we coudn't communicate?

And this forum is going to go back and forth and go nowhere, we all have our different views, i could be forever telling u the 'real' way things are done etc. But it would mean nothing to u, because u don't follow the same beliefs. I mean, i bet if i started saying something about.. your beliefs or something, i'm sure you would find it ridiculous as i would probably have no idea what i was talking about. It's just that because Christianity is more well known, and people like having their own spin on things, specially when they cannot understand it themselves.

I do understand Christianity, I once succumbed to the constant Christian brainwashing at my school, before I realised it didn't make sense. Science has proven that human emotions are produced in a certain part of the brain (and yes, I'm getting this from God's Debris), which means that an omnipotent being, or God, would not feel these things. Yet why has God made humans out of love? Why does he feel mercy and pity and anger? And why does his word, the Bible, contradict itself repeatedly? (there is a full list of the contradictions of the Bible somewhere on this forum, no prizes for finding it)

Yes, it's a very hard concept to believe. But life *is* a miracle. I knew a lot of people that did not believe, and years later started too, because they went through experiences that were basically miracles. I've been a Christian through-out my life only because my parents started me. I haven't been but a few years considering myself a true one.

Science.. I don't doubt what it finds. But it hasn't found the meaning of life. My Dad is a doctor, and he used to be against the whole Christian thing, but as he went through his really hard studies of medicine and life, he told me he found that there were *many* things that even his teachers could not explain; all miracles. I guess a lot won't really understand until they get into a situation they cannot explain or fully understand themselves.. Love is a miracle IMO, and very unexplainable thing.. There's nothing that can explain it, or why we have attatchments, but at least we have a word for it. And that's my "miracle", or why I believe, honestly

A miracle is just something we can't explain yet. Several hundred years ago, when someone caught a disease, they thought it was the work of God. When someone got hit by lighting and survived, it was a miracle. Now we know that these are perfectly natural events. Soon we may know how life started as well, and that will no longer be a miracle either.

..and another thing. God does try to prevent you from harm, but when you disregard this and put yourself in harms way, well, that's a choice, and He gives us choices.. It's like the tale of that guy who stood in a rising river...I'm not sure if I'm going to tell it right, but this is what I remember.. Officials came by with ropes to get him out of the rising river, but the man kept exclaiming "God will save me!" A longboat came by to get him, but again, he said the exact same thing. A guy riding a camel went out to retrieve him, but again, he said the same thing. The water rose and he drowned. Of course as he did rise to heaven and talk with God, he asked him, "Why didn't you save me??", and God responded with "I sent you men, a boat, and a camel.. What more could you have wanted?" People that let go of the steering wheel and hope for God to save them in their cars.. well, it won't happen, that's their choice.

God can see the future, can't he? If God can see the future, it means all things are predeterminded. Therefore, we can not make choices, all things have already been decided. In fact, science has proven that free will doesn't exist as well ( http://www.newscient...025504.000.html , sorry about the subscription thing, I think it is illegal if I copy it out). Quantum physics proves that all things are either random or predetermined. We make no choices.

[Neraphym]

Science cannot explain something yet, so it must be the work of God!!! Omg, it's the God of the Gaps theory!!! Since the beginning to human history, everything that we cannot understand has always been attributed to a God. The sun was Ra or Helios, lighting was Zues or Thor... everything had a god. There were hundreds and thousands of gods throughout all of history, then some people got a bright idea. "Hey, worshiping all these gods at once is tough... why don't we shove them all into one big god?" And thus, the monotheistic religions were born. Everything in the universe was under the power of one God... except science. Science comes along and begins to take away God's power. As people grow smarter, God grows weaker. Right now, poor God doesn't have much left. All he can do is hide in the gaps of science, but it won't be long until science fills in those gaps. There aren'y many places left for God to hide in. Where will he go once science learns everything?

I just love it when people use the god of the gaps theory. Science doesn't know, so God must exist. And if a God must exist, it absolutely has to be the Christian God, not all the other equally qualified dieties. :-P

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Christians. I have nothing against you guys in general. It's the people who actually ahere to your beliefs that I despise. The 'pick & choose' christians are nice, though, as they tend to pick the morally/socially acceptable beliefs and disregard the unacceptable ones, such as killing children for disobeying parents, killing people for being born with an attraction to the same sex, and killing people who are witches.

[Rohtaren]

if God didn't exist, there would be no human history or science to solve!

[Elvenblader]

Rohtaren, you have to ask your self this. In Genesis of The Bible, it talks about Adam and Eve. Well if this really happened, how do you explain all the fossils that Archaelogists find in the Earth. Now ask yourslef this, if humans were as intelligent in the time of Adam and Eve. Then would it not be possible that even though we are Homo-Sapiens now, would it not be that we would be more evolved then we are now?

This post has been edited by Elvenblader5: 31 May 2006 - 12:11 AM

[Nuu™™]

if God didn't exist, there would be no human history or science to solve!

That makes...no sense.

Anyway, I have just noticed some rather concrete proof to back my statement that because 'Jesus was alive 2,000 years ago, his stories would have been reproduced many times, exaggerated etc.'

The two first clauses of the Nicene Creed are:

# Jesus Christ is described as "God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God," confirming his divinity. When all light sources were natural, the essence of light was considered to be identical, regardless of its form.

# Jesus Christ is said to be "begotten, not made," asserting his co-eternalness with God, and confirming it by stating his role in the Creation.

'Comfirming his divinity'? The confirmation of Jesus' divinity only came three centuries after he was born? The the prayers to Jesus and that Jesus is part of the Holy Trinity was decided in the First Council of Nicaea?

[Neraphym]

After Jesus' death, tons of people went there own ways and started many versions of christianity. Some thought Jesus to be divine, others didn't. Three centuries later, they all got back together in Nicaea, consolodated their religion, and made that religon the 'absolute, perfect, infalable' religion. That's when the divinity of christ was 'established,' but that does not necessarily mean he wasn't considered divine before then. Either way, science still owns.

[Count Olaf]

Christ was the most perfect man to walk on Earth. He has saved us all from sin. He is a great God! Do you believe in Christ?